Jiu jitsu club

[Headhunter]

so today I went to a local club in my new area just because I fancied doing a few rounds on the mat. I emailed the instructor before hand to check it was fine to turn up. It was so I turned up spoke a little then started rolling with another white belt there. I didn't go hard or full out because that's not a good way to make an impression going hard on less experienced guys.

Anyway afterwards a purple belt asked me to roll which I said sure. Now he was a lot bigger than me not muscular weight but basically he was a fat guy to be honest. Now of course due to the fact he was heavier than me and more experienced he had me pinned and I couldn't do much then he went to mount and tried for an Americana. Now the thing about me is my ends can bend a lot. Literally I've been in fully locked out arm bars and not felt a thing and managed to escape a lot because of this. Not that I've never tapped to arm locks because I have but a running joke at my last club was never try a kimura or an armbar or whatever because it's hard to work. I'm not bragging about it because frankly it's nothing to do with me it's how my body is.

Anyway back to the present the guy had the lock but I didn't feel anything at all. I didn't feel In danger at all so I kept trying to escape. I could tell the guy was getting pissed off but eventually I escaped and reversed the mount, at that point the round ended soon after and I got up and went to walk off to change partners then the guy said to me. "Hey I was being nice but if you keep acting dumb and not tap to me I'll rip your arm off" now tbh that pissed me off. I hate that stupid macho attitude but I stayed and respectful and simply said I wasn't holding on to be stupid I genuinely didn't feel it was applied and I explained about how my arms are quite bendy. Then he replied well it doesn't matter you should've tapped because I'm a purple belt and your a white belt. Now that confused me so I asked out of genuine curiosity why should I have tapped because of rank? His reply you should show respect to higher belts and submit to them when they apply it.

Now I had a few things I could've said to that but I just said well sorry but that's not how I was trained to roll and I just left it there.

But frankly I simply can't understand that at all. Why would I give up when he has nothing on me just because he's a higher belt that goes against everything martial arts are meant to teach and frankly I'd be doing him no favours apart from his ego by tapping to nothing.

Has anyone ever seen that attitude in Bjj before

 

[Hanzou]

From his perspective, maybe he thought you weren't tapping because you were a white belt and didnt understand that you should tap if your arm is about to pop off? Maybe he was concerned that you were going to get seriously injured and he didnt want that on his conscience?

He completely lost me when after you explained he said you should tap to him because he's a higher rank. That's just nonsense.

And yeah, you probably did him a favor showing him that his submissions might not work on everybody.

 

[drop bear]

There is a gray area there.

I don't keep pushing if there is a creepy sense of going to far. But I have also crippled people who didn't tap.

So the attitude of tap or get your limb broken is valid. But I shouldn't do it intentionally.

So say you were in no danger and didn't tap and I popped your arm out in that situation. That would have been tough cookies for you.

If I had some sort of momentum based submission and you didn't tap in time. That's on me.

As far as tapping to higher belts. That is not a real thing.

 

[Headhunter]

There is a gray area there.

I don't keep pushing if there is a creepy sense of going to far. But I have also crippled people who didn't tap.

So the attitude of tap or get your limb broken is valid. But I shouldn't do it intentionally.

So say you were in no danger and didn't tap and I popped your arm out in that situation. That would have been tough cookies for you.

If I had some sort of momentum based submission and you didn't tap in time. That's on me.

As far as tapping to higher belts. That is not a real thing.

I was in no danger at all honestly I think it was a bad submission attempt more than my arm being bendy if I'm honest. Normally I'd feel something even if it's not tap worth but this one just felt like he was holding my arm so I think it was more poor technique

 

[Headhunter]

From his perspective, maybe he thought you weren't tapping because you were a white belt and didnt understand that you should tap if your arm is about to pop off? Maybe he was concerned that you were going to get seriously injured and he didnt want that on his conscience?

He completely lost me when after you explained he said you should tap to him because he's a higher rank. That's just nonsense.

Well I could understand if I was just a white belt but I had 4 stripes on and had already told him I'd been training for about 2 years

 

[Hanzou]

Well I could understand if I was just a white belt but I had 4 stripes on and had already told him I'd been training for about 2 years

Well then yeah, the guy is being an idiot.

Unfortunately, some people allow the color of their belt to get to their heads. A few people have even suggested doing away with belts in BJJ for that very reason. In the end, its just (as you said) stupid macho crap mixed with way too much ego.

Btw, enjoy your genetic advantage. Having super bendy joints can take you far.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

so today I went to a local club in my new area just because I fancied doing a few rounds on the mat. I emailed the instructor before hand to check it was fine to turn up. It was so I turned up spoke a little then started rolling with another white belt there. I didn't go hard or full out because that's not a good way to make an impression going hard on less experienced guys.

Anyway afterwards a purple belt asked me to roll which I said sure. Now he was a lot bigger than me not muscular weight but basically he was a fat guy to be honest. Now of course due to the fact he was heavier than me and more experienced he had me pinned and I couldn't do much then he went to mount and tried for an Americana. Now the thing about me is my ends can bend a lot. Literally I've been in fully locked out arm bars and not felt a thing and managed to escape a lot because of this. Not that I've never tapped to arm locks because I have but a running joke at my last club was never try a kimura or an armbar or whatever because it's hard to work. I'm not bragging about it because frankly it's nothing to do with me it's how my body is.

Anyway back to the present the guy had the lock but I didn't feel anything at all. I didn't feel In danger at all so I kept trying to escape. I could tell the guy was getting pissed off but eventually I escaped and reversed the mount, at that point the round ended soon after and I got up and went to walk off to change partners then the guy said to me. "Hey I was being nice but if you keep acting dumb and not tap to me I'll rip your arm off" now tbh that pissed me off. I hate that stupid macho attitude but I stayed and respectful and simply said I wasn't holding on to be stupid I genuinely didn't feel it was applied and I explained about how my arms are quite bendy. Then he replied well it doesn't matter you should've tapped because I'm a purple belt and your a white belt. Now that confused me so I asked out of genuine curiosity why should I have tapped because of rank? His reply you should show respect to higher belts and submit to them when they apply it.

Now I had a few things I could've said to that but I just said well sorry but that's not how I was trained to roll and I just left it there.

But frankly I simply can't understand that at all. Why would I give up when he has nothing on me just because he's a higher belt that goes against everything martial arts are meant to teach and frankly I'd be doing him no favours apart from his ego by tapping to nothing.

Has anyone ever seen that attitude in Bjj before

I cracked up at how ridiculous that giy is. Gonna repeat dropbears advice though-if you know the lock is good, trying to escape rather than just tapping because you dont feel it is a good way to get your shoulder/arm messed up. If he doesn't have it, obviously thats different though

 

[drop bear]

I was in no danger at all honestly I think it was a bad submission attempt more than my arm being bendy if I'm honest. Normally I'd feel something even if it's not tap worth but this one just felt like he was holding my arm so I think it was more poor technique

Which can also be the case. If for example I have my coach in a lock I will keep applying it. But he knows his limits. He knows if that lock is working or not.

Otherwise in wrestling I have seen guys eat dislocations because they wont roll over when they are turned.

The biggest issue is with an arm lock that is done wrong. If they suddenly figure out how to do it right. The generally apply it with the same force they were using. And that can cause an injury.

 

[drop bear]

Well I could understand if I was just a white belt but I had 4 stripes on and had already told him I'd been training for about 2 years

By the way try being a MMA gym. You want to upset a belt. Grind on them.

 

[hoshin1600]

i would be careful about the concept of "i didnt feel it" i had my knee busted up like that. some things just snap quicker than we thought would happen. i had a guy twist my leg like a turkey dinner on holiday. i didnt feel it at all.....until i did. at that point the damage to the ligaments was done.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Has anyone ever seen that attitude in Bjj before

I'm not surprised. What happened to you is just a pack order nonsense of "I'm going to show the new guy my rank." Some people take the color of their belt or the time they have spent in the school way too seriously.

 

[Hanzou]

i would be careful about the concept of "i didnt feel it" i had my knee busted up like that. some things just snap quicker than we thought would happen. i had a guy twist my leg like a turkey dinner on holiday. i didnt feel it at all.....until i did. at that point the damage to the ligaments was done.

Yeah, that's a good point. Just because you're not feeling any pain from a joint lock doesn't mean that there's no damage being done. Be careful.

 

[JowGaWolf]

i would be careful about the concept of "i didnt feel it" i had my knee busted up like that. some things just snap quicker than we thought would happen. i had a guy twist my leg like a turkey dinner on holiday. i didnt feel it at all.....until i did. at that point the damage to the ligaments was done.

That's why you have to be honest about your limits. In other words stopping the action before it reaches the breaking point. Waiting for it to snap as a marker of "feeling it" is not good habit to get into. People who aren't flexible feel that breaking point a lot sooner than someone who is double jointed, so the warning comes in before everything fails. Those who have more flexibility have less warning time before the break.

This guy has flexibility with in the range that most people's arms break. However, it also means his break won't have much of a warning that something is about to tear or break.

Then you have people like these who are probably immune to a lot of joint locks.. Like that girl who turned her freaking arms 360 degrees. And the girl with the fingers that bend back.

 

[_Simon_]

I know zilch about BJJ, but yeah. Dude just seems to be hiding behind his rank. And the fact that you explained why you didn't tap to him and how he responded just showed that. Probably didn't wanna admit that his technique wasn't that great at the time

And also you've been rolling for two years, so you would have become very acquainted with your limits/threshold I reckon. BJJ would be a very humbling process I'd imagine!

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

I've not experienced anything to this extent but have noticed similar "meat head/alpha male" like attitudes having a higher percentage in BJJ. You can see this even in the way they take class photos with an air of machismo, which isnt necessarily a bad thing - to an extent it raises their confidence to hold themselves in a way that will make them less likely to be targeted for violence. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to say there arnt great spirited BBJ people out there, hell i've rolled with them and their great.

But if youve both been training for a while there shouldnt be such an issue over recognizing limits.

 

[dunc]

You shouldn’t feel the need to tap because someone is a higher rank than you
Having said that you do need to be aware of when you should be tapping to avoid injury. Some more experienced people will release a sub to avoid injury

Sounds like there was some ego involved here ‘though

 

[Headhunter]

Well then yeah, the guy is being an idiot.

Unfortunately, some people allow the color of their belt to get to their heads. A few people have even suggested doing away with belts in BJJ for that very reason. In the end, its just (as you said) stupid macho crap mixed with way too much ego.

Btw, enjoy your genetic advantage. Having super bendy joints can take you far.

Funny thing is looked on the clubs Facebook and the guy had won a silver medal the weekend before....thing is there were only 2 including him on the podium so he had one fight and lost and got a silver medal....lol...I mean nothing wrong with that he turned up to compete and only 2 guys in his division that's not his fault he turned up to compete and he did but still he put a big post on about how he was a silver medalist which technically is true but tbh I wouldn't feel good having a medal when j lost my only match so effectively came last yet he was bragging about it....says something about his ego to me

 

[Headhunter]

I've been doing martial arts for over 40 years I know how much my body can take and I have tapped early plenty of times. I'll never go unconscious that's just stupid to me and I have tapped to arm submissions even if they haven't been to bad but also I'm not just going to give for the sake of it either. I know what my body can take and I know it's limits and I know the feeling of when to stop

 

[drop bear]

I've not experienced anything to this extent but have noticed similar "meat head/alpha male" like attitudes having a higher percentage in BJJ. You can see this even in the way they take class photos with an air of machismo, which isnt necessarily a bad thing - to an extent it raises their confidence to hold themselves in a way that will make them less likely to be targeted for violence. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to say there arnt great spirited BBJ people out there, hell i've rolled with them and their great.

But if youve both been training for a while there shouldnt be such an issue over recognizing limits.

There is only so many poses a person can make.

Machismo is martial arts duckface.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I have had that happen to me on a few occasions, twice while doing 'bjj'. To be fair, it happened at the same school but with two different people. Also to be fair, I think this school was a horrible example of bjj as well as the other martial arts they were supposed to be doing but I expect that the attitude was learned from the top. I guess what I am trying to say is, that the attitude was more prevalent in schools that had a 'questionable' curriculum because the head of the schools were 'questionable' instructors to begin with. I don't think it had much to do with the style itself as much as the people teaching it.

Admittedly I have limited experience with bjj but I have tons of experience wrestling. When I was rolling with these two fellows, neither one of them could submit me but here I am coming out of nowhere to submit two of their best guys. One of them, asked what my background was and the other just said I wasn't being a good partner and complying with techniques that were supposedly being used against me. I told him, that they weren't being done correctly and showed him how easily I was able to escape but apparently that was my fault for not being a good partner........

I won't get into the karate experience I had with this group. They insisted that I wear a big, gum shield to protect myself against a front snap kick. I explained that I was training in Kyokusin and we don't normally wear shields. My partner, a rather large (read fat) Sempai said, "Hey if I take a run at you and kick you with all my force, you are going to fly out that window. Better use a shield" My response, "I would like to see you try ".

All this to say, it may have more to do with the school you were at then the style. No style is immune to having douche bags. Some just collect more than others.