Jhoon Rhee & Hee Il Choi

[Rob Broad]

Where do Jhoon Rhee & Hee Il Choi fit in the hierarchy of today's Tae Kwon Do?

 

[Hanzo04]

These two Grandmasters are at the pinnacle of tae kwon do. jhoon rhee isthe father of american tkd (enough said) and Hee il cho has always stresed real training for actual combat and his students buy into it. he has been in some successful movies and has coached the korean and usa tkd teams in past years. his technique and speed are flawless. that's what i think.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Which USA and Korean teams did Cho coach?

 

[Zepp]

Both of them are grandmasters in their own right, but I don't think Tae Kwon Do really has any kind of hierarchy that anyone from different organizations could agree on. (Besides maybe belt ranks.) Maybe Jhoon Rhee deserves slightly more credit for being the first to bring TKD to the US.

 

[sifu nick]

As far as a hierarchy I wouldn't know. I do know Jhoon Rhee is from the ITF style and Hee Il Cho is from the WTF style.

 

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

As far as a hierarchy I wouldn't know. I do know Jhoon Rhee is from the ITF style and Hee Il Cho is from the WTF style.

These two men have had a great influence on TKD. I did not know much about them until I had read a petition that was signed by some of the the higest members of TKD (as well as other martial arts). This petition had granted one H.U.Lee to the level of 10th Dan and from that point out was refered to as "Eternal Grandmaster."
Not trying to take away from these two, but I thought it interesting that they have both signed this document and were the couple of first signatures (from a dozen or so) that were on it.

So, I guess to answer the question, I would say that; depending on which orginization you follow/prefer... the are the highest.

 

[TigerWoman]

As far as a hierarchy I wouldn't know. I do know Jhoon Rhee is from the ITF style and Hee Il Cho is from the WTF style.

I have Hee Il Cho's books and he teaches traditional ITF forms- Chonji-Dangun, etc. TW

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Both men in their prime were excellent technicians and even today are in superb physical condition. Cho was an incredible kicker and Rhee was able to do a hundred consecutive pushups well into his sixties. He may still be able to.

Both men did a great deal to promote Tae Kwon Do through their books and videos.

Both men shared a distaste for wearing dobok tops, preferring to show off their physiques. Its difficult to find a picture of Cho from the seventies where he is wearing a top.

Remy Presas once told me Rhee is supposed to have said he was the "Jesus Christ of Tae Kwon Do." He allegedly said this at a seminar somewhere in Texas. The students of the host took such offense to this that they quit in droves. I can't verify this. It is, at best, hearsay.

I never heard the story of Cho coaching an American or a Korean team. What kind of team? What association?


Regards,


Steve

 

[TigerWoman]

I assume Jhoon Rhee and Hee Il Cho are grandmasters. I was just wondering, does anyone know how many TKD Grandmasters are in the US?
Do any organizations publish those names anywhere? TW

 

[Rob Broad]

Jhoon Rhee, has probably done more to popularize TKD in the US than anyone else. He has been an innovator in the industry. he was one of the first Korean Masters to advocate Safety Gear, and then created his one line since there was no brands geared towards TKD that were really safe. The also started a program for teh US Congress in which he offered lesson to help keep the politicians healthy, and their minds sharp. The few that did his classes really help US TKD get itself notice and helped get it tax exempt status for charities. Jhoon Rhee has also collaborated with films to help produce some great fight sequences, produced his own books and videos. He is a true master of the martial arts.

 

[Mushinto]

Although most TKD history can be taken with a grain of salt, this lineage is interesting:

Chung Do Kwan was the first kwan or school of the modern Korean martial arts to be established on the newly liberated Korean Peninsula. The name Chung Do Kwan means, "The School of the Blue Waves." This represents a youthful spirit and vitality. The system was founded by Lee, Won Kuk and the school was located in Seoul.



***

The first seventeen Black Belts of Chung Do Kwan were:

1) Yoo, Ung Jun,

2) Son, Duk Sung,

3) Uhm, Woon Kyu,

4) Hyun, Jong Myun,

5) Min, Woon Sik,

6) Han, In Sook,

7) Jung, Young Taek,

8) Kang, Suh Chong,

9) Baek, Joon Ki,

10) Nam, Tae Hi,

11) Ko, Jae Chun,

12) Kwak, Kuen Sik,

13) Kim, Suk Kyu,

14) Han, Cha Kyo,

15) Jo, Sung Il,

16) Lee, Sa Man,

17) Rhee, Jhoon Goo - the Father of American Taekwondo.

***

Taekwondo was introduced to the United States by Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee - who is known as the Father of American Taekwondo. He made his first journey to the States in 1956 in a Korean officer training program. After returning to Korea to finish his military service, he came back to the States in 1957 as an engineering student. In 1959, while attending the University of Texas in Austin, he needed income. Thus, he became the first instructor to teach the art of Taekwondo to American students in the United States. Today, in his sixties, he is still a very active instructor and proponent of Taekwondo.

This is from this site: http://www.scottshaw.com/history/



On a personal note, I met Jhoon Rhee many times at Korean tournaments in NYC when I studied Taekwondo in the sixties. He was an extremely well respected man, even by other Koreans. My teacher acknowledged him as his senior and I never heard him defer to any other Korean instructors except his teacher (Chong Woo Lee).



I did witness the result of Rhee's ability at a Korean tournament. I had heard that he had a disagreement with another Korean instructor and they went into the men's room. By the time I got there (nosey), there was no one around. Inside the rest room, there was blood all over the walls with big splotches about head-height on all four walls. I finally got one of the other instructors to tell me that a visiting Korean teacher had not shown him the "proper respect".



I don't know much about Hee Il Cho.



ML

 

[Spookey]

Dear All,


Jhoon Rhee was originally from the Chung Do Kwan...This was during the General Choi Hong Hi days. He is coined the Father of American TKD after a meeting with the General in which he adopted the Chang Hon Hyungs of TKD!

Hee Il Cho was a member of the original ITF-Demo Team...He was with General Choi for a long time (many years...) this was prior to the creation of the WTF!

TAEKWON!
SPookey

 

[Miles]

Not that there is a "hierarchy" per se, but GM Rhee is senior to GM Cho, I believe.

Both have done much to enhance the image of TKD thoughout the world.

I read that GM Rhee learned the ITF forms via an ROK Army Field manual while he was in college in Texas.

GM Cho has books on both the ITF Tul and the Kukkiwon Poomsae.

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

I have read Hee Il Cho's book on WTF forms. Honestly, I was not that impressed. One of those cases where he's trying to be all things to all people, showing ITF and WTF forms. Pick one.
In the book, he seemed more intent on demonstrating how good his technique is than on showing proper form action. If I want to know WTF poomsae, I'll read the Kukkiwon manual. At least they specialize in those.

 

[Klondike93]

I have read Hee Il Cho's book on WTF forms. Honestly, I was not that impressed. One of those cases where he's trying to be all things to all people, showing ITF and WTF forms. Pick one.
In the book, he seemed more intent on demonstrating how good his technique is than on showing proper form action. If I want to know WTF poomsae, I'll read the Kukkiwon manual. At least they specialize in those.

Why does he have to pick one? In my opinion he's just doing TKD, all TKD, doesn't matter ITF, WTF or whatever. Or, the WTF just paid him more to do their stuff :idunno:


:ultracool

 

[Miles]

......If I want to know WTF poomsae, I'll read the Kukkiwon manual. At least they specialize in those.

Absolutely agree! Don't have GM Cho's books on Poomsae, but have looked through them. The Kukkiwon Textbook is the final word on poomsae. The accompanying 2 video set has GM LEE, Chong Kwan performing them. He's in the center:

Miles

 

[Miles]

......If I want to know WTF poomsae, I'll read the Kukkiwon manual. At least they specialize in those.

GM LEE, Chong Kwan teaches Poomsae at the Kukkiwon's Instructor Courses. And my photo of him obviously didn't come through.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

Well if you want WTF get ready for change because the Poomse are changing. They are developing a new set as we speak. Anyway Cho Books Blackbelt Poomse are a pretty good read. as you all know if you do WTF Poomse and you did USTU tournaments than you know they have no uniform way of keeping the Poomse straight for all WTF-USTU school teach them differently don't know why, but they do. I guess because most of them look to the sport aspect and really do not care about the Poomse that much atleast that is what I have been told. The USA TKD promises to unified scoring in the future but who really knows for sure. I can't see that happening for everybody looks at different aspects of a Poomse and you can't unified one's thought of how they where tought. MichaganTKD I respect you and you know this but how come you don't do the Pawle gue set (mis-spelled) just a thought.

Terry Lee Stoker :asian:

 

[DuneViking]

The first seventeen Black Belts of Chung Do Kwan were:


Thanks for the info, what happened to the others? Is anyone aquainted with Um, Uoon Kyu (Uhm, Woon Kyu?)and the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association of America? Apparrently Um participated in TKTKDAA along with E. B Sell. I found a website [http://www.sos.mtu.edu/husky/tkdhist.htm] with this info :

Won Kook Yi (Lee), a Tae Kyon (sic) student, traveled throughout the Orient, returning to Korea in 1940. In 1941, he added techniques from other styles to Tae Kyon, and developed "Tae Su Do Chung Do Kwan". He retired in 1945, but before doing so, he named his successor as head of Chung Do Kwan, Grand Master Uoon Kyu Um.

A different version of these events appeared in a recent issue of Tae Kwon do Times [size=-1](47)[/size] which adds some details, but contradicts other seemingly reliable sources. According to this version, Grandmaster Lee opened his school with the tacit approval of the Japanese authorities on September 14, 1944. Grand Master Lee trained students until 1950, when he had to leave Korea for Japan for ?political? reasons. Duk Sung Son then became Kwan Jang Nim of Chung Do Kwan.A few years later Duk Sung Son left Korea for the United States, and only then did Uoon Kyu Um become Kwan Jang Nim. Uoon Kyu Um is mentioned among the original students of Grand Master Lee and so is Jhoon Rhee but, in this version, there is no mention at all of General Choi Hong Hi. The omission is incorrect and was made for political reasons.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Well if you want WTF get ready for change because the Poomse are changing. They are developing a new set as we speak. Anyway Cho Books Blackbelt Poomse are a pretty good read. as you all know if you do WTF Poomse and you did USTU tournaments than you know they have no uniform way of keeping the Poomse straight for all WTF-USTU school teach them differently don't know why, but they do. I guess because most of them look to the sport aspect and really do not care about the Poomse that much atleast that is what I have been told. The USA TKD promises to unified scoring in the future but who really knows for sure. I can't see that happening for everybody looks at different aspects of a Poomse and you can't unified one's thought of how they where tought. MichaganTKD I respect you and you know this but how come you don't do the Pawle gue set (mis-spelled) just a thought.

Terry Lee Stoker :asian:

Terry,

We do practice the Palgwe set. We have ever since I began practicing. Perhaps you meant the Taegeuk set. We don't practice the Taegeuk set because our Instructor, Grandmaster Tae Zee Park, never switched over to them. Apparently the Palgwe set were the ones he learned in Korea and the ones he stayed with.