Original Masters of Taekwondo!

[Spookey]

Dear All,

It appears GM Rhee, Ki Ha has announced his retirement from both the UKTA & ITF-NK.

Previously pioneers such as C.K. Choi, Kong, Young-Il, Kong, Young-Bo and others have been working together and independently to strengthen the Traditional Style of Taekwondo (Chang-Heon).

It will be interesting to see if GM Rhee, Ki Ha picks up with the others in any of these gatherings.

That being said...where are the other living masters of the Early ITF? Better yet, how many currently claim a direct association or provide direct endorsement of any of the existing "ITF Organizations"?

Choi Jung Hwa is obviously still in the mix, but what about other senior 9th Dan's like Park, Jong Soo...

TAE-KWON!
Spooks

 

[chrispillertkd]

Dear All,

It appears GM Rhee, Ki Ha has announced his retirement from both the UKTA & ITF-NK.

Just saw the news this morning. I was somewhat surprised that the UKTA has decided to remain with the ITF-NK but I don't really know the inner workings of that organization and how decisions are made. GM Rhee's son is a Master Instructor himself and teaching in Australia and I imagine he will follow his father.

Previously pioneers such as C.K. Choi, Kong, Young-Il, Kong, Young-Bo and others have been working together and independently to strengthen the Traditional Style of Taekwondo (Chang-Heon).

It will be interesting to see if GM Rhee, Ki Ha picks up with the others in any of these gatherings.

It appears from GM Rhee's resignation letter that his teaching of non ITF-NK groups may have contributed to his leaving the ITF-NK. You can read it for yourself and decide.

That being said...where are the other living masters of the Early ITF? Better yet, how many currently claim a direct association or provide direct endorsement of any of the existing "ITF Organizations"?

Choi Jung Hwa is obviously still in the mix, but what about other senior 9th Dan's like Park, Jong Soo...

TAE-KWON!
Spooks

GM Park, Jong Soo is in Canada and involved in the Taekwon-Do program that is part of CISM. He has been at some functions with GM Choi, though I wouldn't say he is a part of ITF-C.

GM Lee, Won Il who was a very early ITF instructor is part of ITF-C.

GM Lee, Yoo Sun is, I believe, in the U.S. and has become involved in the ITF-C recently.

GM Chung, Kwang Duk is teaching his own organization.

That's all I can think of off hand.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Earl Weiss]

Not sure how "early" is early. GM Nam Tae Hi is in California. there was recent story that his recent appearnace at an event in Texas was his last public appearance. GM Sereff is still active in Colorado as head of the USTF.

GMs Han Cha Kyo and Park Jung Tae are deceased.

 

[Spookey]

So...

Are their any original Pioneers directly associated with with ITF-NK or ITF-V

 

[chrispillertkd]

I forgot to mention that GM Hwang, Kwang Sung is also heading his own organization (Unified-ITF).

So...

Are their any original Pioneers directly associated with with ITF-NK or ITF-V

If you mean the pioneers that Gen. Choi originally sent out to teach around the world, then I do not think so. There are still some very senior practitioners associated with both of those ITFs, but not from the group in which you seem to be interested now that both GM Rhee and GM Park have left ITF-NK.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Earl Weiss]

As mr. Spiller said you would need to define "Pioneer" General Choi appointed a Total of Seven people to GM inthe years prior to his death. One is in ITF V and one, the head of TKD times has a strong relationship with ITF NK but I do not think he he has an official office.

The others seem to be doing their own thing.

 

[Archtkd]

Dear All,

Previously pioneers such as C.K. Choi, Kong, Young-Il, Kong, Young-Bo and others have been working together and independently to strengthen the Traditional Style of Taekwondo (Chang-Heon).

TAE-KWON!
Spooks

Not to nitpick and start one of those silly debates, but why say traditional style when you mean ITF or Chang-Heon? Traditional as in other styles are not?

 

[tkd1964]

GM Ra Yong Chul is teaching in Colorado. GM Kim Young Soo is in Korea and I believe is KKW/WTF since he was not allowed to leave Korea after Gen. Choi left in 1972.

 

[Spookey]

Arch TKD,

Not to nitpick and start one of those silly debates, but why say traditional style when you mean ITF or Chang-Heon? Traditional as in other styles are not?

I will take the bait for the shear entertainment...

Several other styles are not, you are correct...so would you prefer "Original Taekwondo"? Note, I did specify Traditional Taekwondo (Chang Heon) which is no different than if I said Original Kukki as opposed to current!

What was traditionally taught by a system (of TKD or any other art) is just that...the traditional way....once it is modified then it is no longer the way traditionally performed. Or again, would you prefer I say "Originally performed".

 

[puunui]

Several other styles are not, you are correct...so would you prefer "Original Taekwondo"? Note, I did specify Traditional Taekwondo (Chang Heon) which is no different than if I said Original Kukki as opposed to current!

What was traditionally taught by a system (of TKD or any other art) is just that...the traditional way....once it is modified then it is no longer the way traditionally performed. Or again, would you prefer I say "Originally performed".

When the name was adopted in 1955, the "taekwondo" that the name applied to was the Chung Do Kwan style, not Chang Hon, since none of the Chang Hon tul were created yet. The Chung Do Kwan dan certificates that were issued by the Chung Do Kwan under GM SON Duk Sung's signature stated both "Tang Soo Do" and "Taekwondo" on the certificates. But the fact remains that the technical standards and forms were those used by the Chung Do Kwan, and by extension, the Oh Do Kwan.

 

[StudentCarl]

Arch TKD,
I will take the bait for the shear entertainment...

Several other styles are not, you are correct...so would you prefer "Original Taekwondo"? Note, I did specify Traditional Taekwondo (Chang Heon) which is no different than if I said Original Kukki as opposed to current!

What was traditionally taught by a system (of TKD or any other art) is just that...the traditional way....once it is modified then it is no longer the way traditionally performed. Or again, would you prefer I say "Originally performed".

I find it interesting that you identify one form as traditional to separate it from others, yet have this tag line:

Proudly promoting a mutual respect between all practioners of Taekwon-Do.......................UNITY...........TAEKWON!

I think your words don't fit with the tag you espouse.
​

 

[RobinTKD]

I find it interesting that you identify one form as traditional to separate it from others, yet have this tag line:

Proudly promoting a mutual respect between all practioners of Taekwon-Do.......................UNITY...........TAEKWON!

I think your words don't fit with the tag you espouse.
​

Are ITF and KKW not seperate then? Do you see them as the same? I'd agree that they're not totally different, but as different as what Shotokan is to ITF.

 

[msmitht]

One of my late gms, moon ku baek, came to the us in the eaRly 60's. He was a moo duk kwan student who joined choi, hong hi @the military compound along with many other pioneers( jimmy kims father was there) who were learning the "new style" to take out into the world. After he promoted charles serrif to 2nd dan (rmtkd in colorado)he moved to florida and then ohio and finally san diego. He only stayed with the itf until the early 70's. He went back to mdk tsd/tkd (blend) after that. He passed in 1997, god rest his soul.

 

[puunui]

Are ITF and KKW not seperate then? Do you see them as the same? I'd agree that they're not totally different, but as different as what Shotokan is to ITF.

ITF and KKW are separate because ITF members choose to separate themselves. The fact of the matter is that there are many Kukkiwon certified practitioners who continue to practice the Chang Hon forms.

 

[Spookey]

I love the rush of criticism...

1. I know exactly what my caption statement says

2. I do not believe the mutual respect will ever be achieved if various points of view are not accepted

3. My education is continuous, so forgive me if I have not yet reached your level of enlightenment

4. I see a definitive difference between Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo while accepting that each of the kwans is very deserving of credit and recognition

5. I am not a member of the ITF, and honestly agree that the ITF & WTF are both entities of political evolution. The ITF has it's technical committee and South Korea has the Kukkiwon

6. I believe there are multiple Taekwondo(s) the one that began in each individual kwan as Tang Soo Do, Dang Soo Do, Kong Soo Do evolved into what they later became

7. I believe the product of "Taekwondo" was exported throughout the world utilizing the Chang Heon heritage of the aformentioned

8. I believe the Kwans paved the way for the KTA, and the KTA paved the way for both the ITF & WTF respectively

9. Personally, I am not happy with the direction of either the ITF or the WTF at this point in time, and do not directly associate with either.

10. I do not believe Taekwondo is thousands of years old, not do I believe it is the creation of any one man

Please provide your next posts in an educational format so that I may increase my knowledge, or choose footing for debate. However, please refrain from the "master mentality" and join me as a martial scholar with room to grow and learn!

Humble Regards,
Spooks

(P.S. When referring to tradition an origin, please specify which came first so I can follow your logic)

 

[Spookey]

ITF and KKW are separate because ITF members choose to separate themselves. The fact of the matter is that there are many Kukkiwon certified practitioners who continue to practice the Chang Hon forms.

I agree completely...Personally, I believe tradition to be in those who remember these things. There are senior members of Taekwondo that have served in various positions within their original kwan, the ITF, and then the Kukkiwon & WTF structures.

When we become exclusive to one political affiliation and their ideology only, we become numb to the reality around us. I did not always believe this way, but the more I learn and research the more clear it becomes that so much credit is deserved beyond what is generally included in the political ideology of each individual group. This understanding is where I believe the mutual respect will be found.

One of my late gms, moon ku baek, came to the us in the eaRly 60's. He was a moo duk kwan student who joined choi, hong hi @the military compound along with many other pioneers( jimmy kims father was there) who were learning the "new style" to take out into the world. After he promoted charles serrif to 2nd dan (rmtkd in colorado)he moved to florida and then ohio and finally san diego. He only stayed with the itf until the early 70's. He went back to mdk tsd/tkd (blend) after that. He passed in 1997, god rest his soul.

This is a prime example...many masters like this ventured from their point of origin to a large affiliation. In time returning to their point of origin (which may have formed alliance within other associations). For instance when a Grandmaster such as Moon Ku Baek returned to the Moo Duk Kwan of his origin, was it then the Moo Duk Kwan of Tang Soo Do which became Soo Bahk Do, or was it the Moo Duk Kwan that joined the Kukkiwon.

If we cannot see that we are all the same, the respect will not he found. So maybe we should (as a group) determine new terms of "political correctness" to describe our Kwan affiliations, the exact point in time when Taekwondo became seperate from Tang Soo Do & Karate-do, and to express our differences through the organizations. Remember, the original KTA testing included multiple hyung choices to accommodate the variety of competitors. Why can their not be the same acceptance today, to not require a specific family of patterns, but rather to respect them all and the ability of the individual practitioner.

Whether or not Taekwondo was intended to be one singular art, or an umbrella term...history made the decision. There are too many people practicing too many curriculum, and very attached to their unique lineage to say it should be ONE...but rather mutually accept that all the individual components make up the nucleus of oneness!

 

[RobinTKD]

ITF and KKW are separate because ITF members choose to separate themselves. The fact of the matter is that there are many Kukkiwon certified practitioners who continue to practice the Chang Hon forms.

I also agree with this, just the same as I know ITF practitioners who also practice Tang Soo Do and Okinawan Karate forms.