Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do

jedtx88

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I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do. Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate. Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​
 

Cyriacus

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Having looked at Videos of Jhoon Rhee TKD, I have to ask;
Is it possible that Jhoon Rhee didnt change it, and that it was just being taught differently between Dojangs? Because it seems possible from what Ive seen.
 

Earl Weiss

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I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do. Only it is an entirely different system!​

Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK) When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded. Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art") left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system. So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Rhee tkd is very big over here in australia. Is it the same "Rhee" tkd over here as it is over there, or is there another Rhee?
 

Cyriacus

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Rhee tkd is very big over here in australia. Is it the same "Rhee" tkd over here as it is over there, or is there another Rhee?
Im not sure if Jhoon Rhee TKD is in Australia, but personally I Train under Chong Chul Rhee TKD, which is indeed pretty big in this Country.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Im not sure if Jhoon Rhee TKD is in Australia, but personally I Train under Chong Chul Rhee TKD, which is indeed pretty big in this Country.

Yeah thats the one I think. We have 'Rhee tkd' clubs all over the place around us. Actually I was at work the other day and found out one of the guys I see around a bit is a Rhee tkd instructor. Is Chong Chul Rhee any relation to Jhoon Rhee? What forms do you do? Are you in QLD?
 

Cyriacus

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Yeah thats the one I think. We have 'Rhee tkd' clubs all over the place around us. Actually I was at work the other day and found out one of the guys I see around a bit is a Rhee tkd instructor. Is Chong Chul Rhee any relation to Jhoon Rhee? What forms do you do? Are you in QLD?
No. Its pure coincidence their Surnames are the same.

Im fairly sure Patterns are Hyeong. And We call them Patterns instead of Forms; I can only assume and guess at why.
Yes, Im in QLD.
 

ralphmcpherson

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No. Its pure coincidence their Surnames are the same.

Im fairly sure Patterns are Hyeong. And We call them Patterns instead of Forms; I can only assume and guess at why.
Yes, Im in QLD.
what sort of sparring do you guys do? sorry for all the questions, the guy from work invited me along to train with him and his class. He gave me his card and I have contemplated going along sometime and Im just curious as to how they train and what they do. You never know, if you're in QLD, I might bump into you there :)
 

dancingalone

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I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do. Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate. Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​

My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style. The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.). As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.

So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland. In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?
 

oftheherd1

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My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style. The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.). As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.

So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland. In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?

He did not change at first AFIK. When he first came to this area, his only studio was at the 3rd floor of a building at Conecticutt and S Streets, in Washington, DC. We did forms, blocked, punched and kicked. We learned control as part of our training and for sparing, as there was no full contact. It seemed pretty traditional, but honestly I have nothing to compare it too. That time was the only time I studied TKD. I heard some mention of a school in Texas, and thought I understood it was a student of his that ran the school under his auspices.

I know that since, he has added music/ballet to some of his forms. I also know that one of the forms has a high back kick where you lean forward and balance with one hand on the floor. That would not have been allowed when I studied. Kicks were practiced a lot, and he had a couple of signature kicks that were amazing. But how much he changed, I can only go on others who have mentioned that he changed it so much it was almost like it wasn't TKD. I sort of discount that.
 
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jedtx88

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Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK) When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded. Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art") left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system. So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.

Thankyou Mr. Weiss.
 
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jedtx88

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My first martial art was Jhoon Rhee tae kwondo, fondly nicknamed 'Texkwondo', and I still have a lot of respect for the style. The version I learned actually used a high fighting stance for mobility in sparring, though we still employed the lower 'traditional' stances in the forms (Chon-ji, Dan-Gun, etc.). As I look at the more recent Jhoon Rhee material on Youtube, it doesn't look too different from what we practiced, aside from the martial ballet forms Mr. Rhee invented, and even then if we took out the music, the physical movement itself is very close to the JR basics I am familiar with.

So I'm not so sure Mr. Rhee changed all that much in a real sense after he left Texas for Maryland. In what way do you feel that he changed his system greatly?

i just you tubed my old forms. You are right the movements are similar, but the stances in the martial ballet( which I was studying without the use of music apparently) are reminiscent of basic kick-boxing. they never put any physical strain on me in comparison to the front and back stances I am currently working with.
 

dancingalone

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i just you tubed my old forms. You are right the movements are similar, but the stances in the martial ballet( which I was studying without the use of music apparently) are reminiscent of basic kick-boxing. they never put any physical strain on me in comparison to the front and back stances I am currently working with.

We had a slew of what were called "fighting combinations" and "practical one steps" that were practiced in that high stance you're familiar with. I guess they might have been the beginnings of what he realized in the martial ballet forms.
 

dancingalone

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I heard some mention of a school in Texas, and thought I understood it was a student of his that ran the school under his auspices.

At one point, there were many TKD schools in Texas under his lineage if not his direct control. Jhoon Rhee TKD was very popular and had an almost ATA-like level of market dominance before the ATA got really big.

I know that since, he has added music/ballet to some of his forms. I also know that one of the forms has a high back kick where you lean forward and balance with one hand on the floor. That would not have been allowed when I studied. Kicks were practiced a lot, and he had a couple of signature kicks that were amazing. But how much he changed, I can only go on others who have mentioned that he changed it so much it was almost like it wasn't TKD. I sort of discount that.

The martial ballet forms have lots of movements that are probably more artistic in nature than martially oriented. They probably are very crowd-pleasing as group demo forms.
 

Kinghercules

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I started studying the modern Jhoon Rhee system a few years ago, however when my instructor moved away I was forced to learn else where. After much debate I settled on another school that teaches Jhoon Rhee Tae Kwon Do. Only it is an entirely different system! Don't get me wrong I love the traditional stances(not at first) and techniques and my instructor is an immpressive gentleman from the "blood n' guts" era of Texas Karate. Still I have been wondering why Mr Rhee changed the system in the first place. I have been trying to research it for a while, but I am getting nowhere. Any information would be appreciated. Thankyou​

I say run to the next dojo. LOL! Ive never met anyone from a Jhoon Rhee school that could fight or had good techniques. :ultracool Seriously.
Jhoon Rhee use to have schools here in the Washington DC area and they had closed because he use to get his azz beat in the streets.
How you gonna be a master teaching ppl how to defend themselves and you cant defend yourself? LOL!! Come on!
:lol:
 

mastercole

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Jhoon Rhee was a Chung Do Kwan product, initialy using that system. The story is well known about how General Choi visited him (as well as many others0 and convinced him to learn the unified system using the TKD moniker, the only widespread one at the time whcih was the Chang Hon system. (It helped that General Choi had the Korean Government's backing) This continued for some time. As with many he taught the chang Hon system flavored with his original habits. (in his case CDK) When General Choi became personna non grata with the Korean government, that government came up with a new system of TKD going thru machinations until the current KKW system was founded. Jhoon Rhee as with many others for a variety of reason's (See "A Killing Art") left General Choi. Instead of adopting the new KKW system I guess he felt well established enough to create the Jhoon Rhee system. So, you may be doing any one of 3 things Chung Do Kwan, Chang Hon, ro the last system with variations as which may be dependant on whomever was learning and teaching and their prior habits.

GM Jhoon Rhee explained it differently to Glenn (puunui) and myself, in a personal face to face conversation. He said that he was teaching pyongahn related hyungs in the USA, I believe at a Texas A&M ROTC Karate Club and that Gen. Choi sent him the Korean Army Field manual, which contained some of the Chang-hon hyungs. In a letter, Gen. Choi asked GM Rhee to start using the word Taekwondo instead of Karate, and to start teaching the hyungs found in the army field manual instead of the pyongahn related hyungs. GM Rhee said no one ever taught him those Chang-hon hyung either, he just learned them directly from the Korean Army Field Manual.

Also, the unified Taekwondo of the KTA was not something created by the Korean Government, it was created by Taekwondo masters, including Gen. Choi, and including GM HYUN Jong Myun, the second Kwanjang of the Oh Do Kwan and ITF technical committee member. GM Hyun was appointed to the 1967 KTA Poomsae Committee that created the Plagwe, Dan and later Taegeuk Poomsae. Gen. Choi became persona non grata AFTER the unification of Taekwondo techniques.

So the Oh Do Kwan, and the ITF helped created the current Kukkiwon Poomsae, and the technical system of the early KTA, which basically remains unchanged today, except for the addition of shihap kyorugi (Olympic sparring)

Oh, GM Rhee also said he never left Gen. Choi because he was never with him :)
 

Earl Weiss

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I say run to the next dojo. LOL! Ive never met anyone from a Jhoon Rhee school that could fight or had good techniques. :ultracool Seriously.
Jhoon Rhee use to have schools here in the Washington DC area and they had closed because he use to get his azz beat in the streets.
How you gonna be a master teaching ppl how to defend themselves and you cant defend yourself? LOL!! Come on!
:lol:

Your lack of knowledge is showing . Following is an escerpt naming Jhoon Rhee progeny of the Texas "Blood and Guts days" who are well known fighters.

"Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee

Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee (the man who brought Tae Kwon Do to the United States) as a fellow student at the University of Texas in 1959. He enrolled in Mr. Rhee's class, which was the first major University martial arts program in Texas.
In 1962, Mr. Steen opened the first commercial Tae Kwon Do / Karate school in the United States outside of New York, Chicago and California becoming known as the "Father of Texas Karate." That first year he enrolled almost a thousand students.
Steen earned his black belt in September of 1962. He presented his first black belt (to J. Pat Burleson, Steen's senior student) in 1963. Mr. Steen's reputation as a champion and trainer of champions remains unparalleled. Grandmaster Steen's many champions include Burleson, Skipper Mullins, Fred Wren, Demetrius Havanas, Roy Kurban, Jim Harkins, Keith Yates, Jim Miller, Jeff Smith, George Minshew, Ray McCallum and Larry Wheeler.
Steen won dozens of championships

Steen won dozens of championships in an impressive competitive career. In 1966 he beat the top two competitors in the country back to back, Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis, to become the only Texan to win the prestigious Grand-championship of the International Karate Championships."

And yes there is a "Story" he was ambushed by 3 thugs on the street and took a beating. (Unable to verify story) So what?
 
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Kinghercules

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Your lack of knowledge is showing . Following is an escerpt naming Jhoon Rhee progeny of the Texas "Blood and Guts days" who are well known fighters.

"Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee

Allen Steen met Jhoon Rhee (the man who brought Tae Kwon Do to the United States) as a fellow student at the University of Texas in 1959. He enrolled in Mr. Rhee's class, which was the first major University martial arts program in Texas.
In 1962, Mr. Steen opened the first commercial Tae Kwon Do / Karate school in the United States outside of New York, Chicago and California becoming known as the "Father of Texas Karate." That first year he enrolled almost a thousand students.
Steen earned his black belt in September of 1962. He presented his first black belt (to J. Pat Burleson, Steen's senior student) in 1963. Mr. Steen's reputation as a champion and trainer of champions remains unparalleled. Grandmaster Steen's many champions include Burleson, Skipper Mullins, Fred Wren, Demetrius Havanas, Roy Kurban, Jim Harkins, Keith Yates, Jim Miller, Jeff Smith, George Minshew, Ray McCallum and Larry Wheeler.
Steen won dozens of championships

Steen won dozens of championships in an impressive competitive career. In 1966 he beat the top two competitors in the country back to back, Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis, to become the only Texan to win the prestigious Grand-championship of the International Karate Championships."

And yes there is a "Story" he was ambushed by 3 thugs on the street and took a beating. (Unable to verify story) So what?

1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters. I said Ive neva met any.
2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and he couldnt handle 3 guys. I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!

I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:
 

SahBumNimRush

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1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters. I said Ive neva met any.
2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and he couldnt handle 3 guys. I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!

I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:

I don't know the reason for sure (heard a few rumors, but don't know exactly), but many of the Korean Masters in my neck of the woods (including Ki Whang Kim) did not think highly of Jhoon Rhee. I have only met Rhee a couple of times, none of which I could discern any martial ability, as he did not demonstrate any martial arts. He did however do his 100 push ups in one minute, which was impressive for anyone, let alone someone of his age.
 

Earl Weiss

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1st of all I didnt say he didnt have any good fighters. I said Ive neva met any.
2nd of all Jhoon Rhee gettin his azz beat in the streets here in DC wasnt just a one time incident.
3rd....he was suppose to be a master. Back then he was 4th or 5th dan BB and he couldnt handle 3 guys. I was gettin jumped in Jr high when I was a blue belt by 3 or more bammas and still dropped them!!

I guessed the difference was that I was trained by a real fighter, Ki Whang Kim, and I guess it doesnt help that GM Ki Whang didnt like Jhoon Rhee anyway. :lol:

Can you provide an internet link to any story about Jhoon Rhee being mugged?

Perhaps the difference was in the "Jumpers" and not the "Jumpee".
 

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