Its about the journey not the destination

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PhotonGuy

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Okay, let's try this another way… in the following clip, is it good, bad, or something else? And why?

The clip is titled as a Shotokan self defense clip however he is also incorporating some Judo throws into it. Overall I must say he looks like he's really good, his technique is clean, crisp, and precise although he could put more hip into his techniques. What I've been taught is to really put your hip into it when you throw a technique. Also, at one point he swings his leg way up, I don't see why he would do that.

Again, though, there is the third reason that, frankly, they're not good enough (skilled enough, insightful enough, whatever) to move up in rank. You can have people put in all the effort in the world, but some levels of skill are just beyond some people… and, much though a "feel good" ideology might dislike that, it's just reality.
So lets say somebody who will never be good enough for black belt because they just don't have the potential, would they even make it to brown?

No, but it is possible to see a lot more than you think you're showing…
What you can see about somebody from messages they post on a board is very limited.


And you've misunderstood each and every time it's been said. The idea of "shut up and train" is that that's where you find your answers… it's in line with your idea that, if you work hard enough, you'll get there. The "shut up and train" meme is in response to people who would tend to talk about training, then complain that they're not getting anywhere, rather than actually put aside their own thoughts and put in the work.

Yes, there are times to ask… and there are different ways to ask. But the main thrust has been that, if you're not getting where you need to be, and are going on and on about it, perhaps you're not putting the effort in where you should, and are instead wasting time intellectualising what should be discovered with sweat.
Exactly, it does take hard work and effort to get anywhere but as you said the effort has to be put where it should be put otherwise its just wasted effort and sometimes you might have to ask, at the right time. You wouldn't want to ask in the middle of class but before or after class could be a good time.

If that's the way it's done in that particular school, maybe. But, honestly, this is a hypothetical based in your (likely) misunderstanding of the running of your own school, and is not the reality for many at all.
At any school you will have to know how its run, and if you're not clear on how its run it would make sense to ask.

I'm old and grumpy, is what I am. I've been at this too long to be anything but.
And thats all the more reason I believe its very important to get things done in a timely manner. Old age, happens to the best of us. Therefore I believe in doing and achieving as much as you can as soon as you can so that way by the time you do get old you will have much to look back on and say that you really did have a good youth. Otherwise life will pass you by and you will be old and grumpy and not pleased with yourself, or with life.

Depends on the rank, and the person, really.

Well for some of the really high dan ranks it might take ten years or more to move up in rank, although in most styles for that we're talking above fifth dan. As for the person, yes there are some people who will get to a certain rank and stay there and not care to advance any further. At my dojo there is this guy who is at low brown, the lowest of the three levels of brown belt and he has been there for many years and he has said that he doesn't care to advance any further. He just wants to keep coming to class and working on his training and technique but he doesn't care for any further rank advancement. However, for somebody who wants to go up in rank, for them to take ten years to go up any one rank up to and including first degree black belt, for them to take ten years I think is absurd.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Do you actually properly read what anyone here posts?

Yes you said that I should've found out from the other students and not have had to talk to the head instructor. And I said many of the other students also had the same misconception I had. You seem to be opposed to talking to the head instructor. Why is that? The head instructor is a human being like anybody else and as you've pointed out lots of dojos are not overly large and are like families in which case talking to the head instructor should be all the easier.
 

Tez3

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The head instructor is a human being like anybody else and as you've pointed out lots of dojos are not overly large and are like families in which case talking to the head instructor should be all the easier.

then why didn't you ask him? :meh:
 

Gnarlie

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Yes you said that I should've found out from the other students and not have had to talk to the head instructor. And I said many of the other students also had the same misconception I had. You seem to be opposed to talking to the head instructor. Why is that? The head instructor is a human being like anybody else and as you've pointed out lots of dojos are not overly large and are like families in which case talking to the head instructor should be all the easier.
Oh dear lord get the point.

I am not opposed to talking to the head instructor at all. I am saying that even if for some reason, like you, one didn't, that the information would be available via other means.

I am not buying that the other people in that group thought the same incorrect thing over a ten year period, sorry. That's just not how a social circle works. If any other people graded in the time you were at the dojo, that puts paid to your theory of them not knowing.

I think what really happened (based on your other posts on this forum about avoiding social contact and awkward avoidance of hand shaking) is that you never engaged with the other people at class socially. I think you turned up to train and then left after training without engaging anyone socially. In fact, I think you actively tried to avoid social engagement. I am fairly sure you stated as much in one of your earliest posts on the forum.

For that reason, I think you were never in a position to be a privy to what information others in the class knew about testing. If others felt no connection to you, you were unlikely to be well-liked enough that the information would come to you. It is also likely that any instructor would observe such in-out behaviour and take it into account when considering how ready someone is for promotion (or not ready).

Sorry if this seems direct, but this is the impression I have of your behaviour over the last year or two of these posts where you just seem to not understand how interactions with other people work in reality.
 

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Yes I did engage with many of the other club members but most of them also had the mistaken impression that you had to be told by the head instructor before you could test. As you said the clubs don't happen to be that big and mine is not small but its not overly large either. But, with a club that's not all that big and that's like a family that's all the more reason that there shouldn't be a problem talking to the head instructor and asking him stuff you're not clear about.
Hang on!! Now you're saying "most of them", ie your other classmates, also were under the same misimpression? I thought when you clarified for T-Grace, it was just yourself and maybe one or two others (and to be frank, I assumed those other two were probably much newer to the school and would have found out the pre-registering requirements promptly in any event!).

So now, it was not just you but a whole heap of the sensei's students, how many others had the perseverance (if that is even the right word in this context!?!) to also train for another ten years before bb????
 

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Yes you said that I should've found out from the other students and not have had to talk to the head instructor. And I said many of the other students also had the same misconception I had. You seem to be opposed to talking to the head instructor. Why is that? The head instructor is a human being like anybody else and as you've pointed out lots of dojos are not overly large and are like families in which case talking to the head instructor should be all the easier.

How many others were so silly as to wait ten YEARS before asking?
 
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PhotonGuy

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Uh oh!...

Is it just me or is this becoming like Ground Hog Day - but only the opposite, where we re-live the same thing again and again but instead of getting better, things just keep going from bad to worse...??

Somebody asked a question and I gave a straight answer, how is that going from bad to worse?
 
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PhotonGuy

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How many others were so silly as to wait ten YEARS before asking?

You can call it silly but there've been people here who've said its disrespectful to ask. So if you don't ask its silly, if you do ask its disrespectful, a catch 22.
 
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PhotonGuy

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then why didn't you ask him? :meh:

Because I had the impression, which now looking back I regret, that its disrespectful to ask. As I said I regret having that impression but there've been other people on this board who have said its disrespectful to ask.
 

Tez3

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Because I had the impression, which now looking back I regret, that its disrespectful to ask. As I said I regret having that impression but there've been other people on this board who have said its disrespectful to ask.


It actually doesn't matter in the least what people think here, no not even me lol, what is important is what you think, and frankly even if it were disrespectful to ask you could have done it anyway. What would you have lost by asking? There's other places to train, other instructors, a bit of polite 'disrespect' might have gone a long way to getting your belt. You know what else people say? "if you don't ask you don't get."
 

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You can call it silly but there've been people here who've said its disrespectful to ask. So if you don't ask its silly, if you do ask its disrespectful, a catch 22.

As usual, you didn't answer the question. I'm going to assume (as will others, I suspect) that the reason you didn't answer is because other students were not silly enough to wait ten years.

And you know what that says about you.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.
 

Zero

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Somebody asked a question and I gave a straight answer, how is that going from bad to worse?
But it seems like you keep giving different straight answers to the same question.

I was under the impression from your earlier posts it was just yourself or maybe one or two others that didn't realise the need to register/file forms. Now you are saying it's "a few". And that does not seem to add up - how could a few, ie quite a number of the class, not realise this requirement and continue spinning wheels not grading up (while seeing others that had filled in forms grading past them) and not asking someone - anyone! - something about this?
 
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PhotonGuy

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Oh dear lord get the point.

I am not opposed to talking to the head instructor at all. I am saying that even if for some reason, like you, one didn't, that the information would be available via other means.

I am not buying that the other people in that group thought the same incorrect thing over a ten year period, sorry. That's just not how a social circle works. If any other people graded in the time you were at the dojo, that puts paid to your theory of them not knowing.

I think what really happened (based on your other posts on this forum about avoiding social contact and awkward avoidance of hand shaking) is that you never engaged with the other people at class socially. I think you turned up to train and then left after training without engaging anyone socially. In fact, I think you actively tried to avoid social engagement. I am fairly sure you stated as much in one of your earliest posts on the forum.

For that reason, I think you were never in a position to be a privy to what information others in the class knew about testing. If others felt no connection to you, you were unlikely to be well-liked enough that the information would come to you. It is also likely that any instructor would observe such in-out behaviour and take it into account when considering how ready someone is for promotion (or not ready).

Sorry if this seems direct, but this is the impression I have of your behaviour over the last year or two of these posts where you just seem to not understand how interactions with other people work in reality.

You can buy or not buy whatever you want but the fact of the matter is lots of students had the false impression that, unlike with other belt tests you had to be told by the head instructor before you could take the black belt test. The fact of the matter is my dojo has a turnover rate where most students stay for a few years at the most and most students don't make it to brown belt let alone black belt. Maybe you're right that I don't properly understand how interactions with other people work but looking back I say my mistake was not talking to the head instructor about it.
 
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PhotonGuy

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It actually doesn't matter in the least what people think here, no not even me lol, what is important is what you think, and frankly even if it were disrespectful to ask you could have done it anyway. What would you have lost by asking? There's other places to train, other instructors, a bit of polite 'disrespect' might have gone a long way to getting your belt. You know what else people say? "if you don't ask you don't get."

You're absolutely right and what you've said is what I've been trying to say all along. Im going to be blunt, the reason I didn't ask the head instructor is because I was scared. I was scared to ask the head instructor.
 
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PhotonGuy

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But it seems like you keep giving different straight answers to the same question.

I was under the impression from your earlier posts it was just yourself or maybe one or two others that didn't realise the need to register/file forms. Now you are saying it's "a few". And that does not seem to add up - how could a few, ie quite a number of the class, not realise this requirement and continue spinning wheels not grading up (while seeing others that had filled in forms grading past them) and not asking someone - anyone! - something about this?

No, when I said "a few" it was because somebody asked me how many people passed me in rank and got a black belt while I was still waiting and I told them, "a few," by that, I mean two or three people. That was the first time somebody asked me such a question.
 

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PhotonGuy... please bring me up to date. I'm sure you've probably already answered this several times along the line, but if so I missed it. Anyway, where are you NOW in your training? Are you in the same system and did you finally test and earn your black belt? ...or even higher rank? And also, as the title of this very long thread is about the journey, not the destination, why are you still carrying on about the rank (destination) if you are still training and enjoying the journey???

Heck, I haven't been promoted in rank since 1987. Well, I did stop training for about 15 years, from about 1992 to 2007. But I've been back at it since the summer of 2007 ...that's 8 more years, and teaching again for the last 6 years or so as well. It would be great to get at least one more promotion before I retire some day. I'd really like that. But if it doesn't happen...well I'm enjoying the journey. How about you?
 

Gnarlie

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You can buy or not buy whatever you want but the fact of the matter is lots of students had the false impression that, unlike with other belt tests you had to be told by the head instructor before you could take the black belt test. The fact of the matter is my dojo has a turnover rate where most students stay for a few years at the most and most students don't make it to brown belt let alone black belt. Maybe you're right that I don't properly understand how interactions with other people work but looking back I say my mistake was not talking to the head instructor about it.

And yet a number of people graded to first dan during that period, and somehow you were not in a position for one of them to say to you in passing, 'oh yeah, I had to apply'.

I don't see why this is still an issue for you anyway. The world has moved on.
 

Tez3

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You're absolutely right and what you've said is what I've been trying to say all along. Im going to be blunt, the reason I didn't ask the head instructor is because I was scared. I was scared to ask the head instructor.

Ah I see and I'm very sorry, that's not a nice situation to be in. It's not pleasant admitting that either so well done you for getting it off your chest. what you need to do now is also get it off your mind, it's done, you've learnt from it and can move on, don't dwell on it anymore, move onwards and upwards.

Perhaps an end to this thread would be a good start, move on to something that's current for you.
 
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