Is the US evil?

[Kacey]

"Evil" or even "force for evil" is a very broad, wide-reaching term. Even an "evil" government can do good; even a "good" government can do evil. Has the US been involved of late in ill-considered actions that have led to poor outcomes? Certainly. Could those outcomes be considered "evil"? Again, certainly. Does that make the US "evil" or a "force for evil"? That's not so clear - because at the same time the US has been involved in such negative actions, it has also been involved in positive ones as well. Who is to say which actions outweigh which others? That is for history to decide.

One of the problems I see with the media today is that there is so much information available, from so many different sources and slants, that it takes a great deal of time and effort to tease out actualities from the interpretations of the presenters... and too many people don't take the time necessary to find the actuality hidden within the presentation, and react based on the presentation, or their interpretation of the presentation. And yet, the wide range of information available, from such a wide range of sources, is also a strength. One must take the time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I know for a fact that the US isn't a force of evil, as I also know for a fact that such a simplistic notion is beyond innane.

Most Americans, be they blue-collar workers, businessmen, schoolteachers or politicians, are well-meaning, thoughtful, reasonably intelligent people who only want what's best for them and theirs. However, I do think that many who currently lead our government, and by this I do mean the majority of the current Administration, are evil, though I don't like to use the word. Our entire nation, and the goodwill of its citizens, cannot be judged by the deceit and irresponsibilities that have been the hallmark of the government for the last decade.

In short, I think that asking "Is the US evil" is terribly, almost deliberately, simplistic.

 

[GradualProgression]

Their Momma's are evil for birthing there ungrateful butts.

If it wasn't for us they would all be speaking German right now.

So there!


Just kidding!

I don't think we are evil though. Just a bit misguided at times.

 

[zDom]

Not evil enough to keep gasoline prices from going up over $4 per gallon.

If we were as "evil" as they think, we would have "assimilated" countries with rich oil fields long ago.




"AlL ur oilz b3loNg 2 US!"

or

"W3'RE in ur oIl fieldz, takin ur gas!"

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I disagree, Brian. The US is the worlds only superpower right now. And it is engaged in attempting to spread the benevolent hegemony of Pax Americana to the rest of the world. If the US succeeds, a version of history will be written and passed to others either by guns or diplomacy. In the "civilized" world, the education systems will teach it and the generations will be indoctrinated to view the US with goodwill.

If our country fails, things could get ugly. Look at how harshly British Colonialism is treated by "historians". All of the blemishes are fully examined so that it looks like there is nothing but blemishes. Reading that version of "history" is going to paint the Brits as an expansionistic, agressive, oppressive, stratified, jingoistic, racist, regime hell bent on world domination.

Are the British evil?

Like it or not, I think we are destined to be painted like this. The sun never sets in the empire of the US, but just like the British, we will not be able to maintain it. Our debts are rising astronomically, our currency is devaluing and more and more people are dropping off into poverty, our standard of living is dropping, and our military is finding it nigh impossible to procure resources for our out of control consumption.

Hopefully, we do not have the twin calamities of "WWI" and "WWII" that effectively put the nails in the Pax Brittania coffin. Hopefully, the US declines peacefully, we slowly alter our culture to live more sustainably and equitably, and we begin the process of pulling the tendrils of hegemony back to let people live as they may.

The alternative is WWIII. Our enemies will be China, Russia, and India. With the state of our financial system and resources at home, we'd never be able to sustain such an effort and Pax Americana will be forcibly put in the history books alongside Pax Brittania.

So, is the US evil? Not yet, IMO. Our society is on a direction that has been taken before by others and they were painted as evil. Can we change before it's too late? Is it already too late? The answer to both of these questions in regards to both "Pax" examples above lies in who controls the money.

Hell, Upnorth, that's how it always is with *every* culture labeled an "empire" , Egypt, Greece, Rome Babylon and Assyria before them.

You either die heroes or you live long enough to see yourself become the next villain. it's just our turn right now, is all.

 

[Logan]

A typical dictionary definition of "evil":

adj. 1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked:
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful:
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous:
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous:
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious:

n. 1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction:
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction:


I don't think the US is evil. Of course like any country the actions of its people/leaders can be interpreted as either good or bad, often depending on your relationship. Propaganda from other countires can influence many that a country is bad. Propaganda inside a country can convince its citizens that a country is good. Nobody likes to be challenged that they are are evil - would Hitler and Stalin consider themselves as evil or good?

History is also fickle. History books have a great deal of difficulty illustrating fact without putting a certain biase on. Take historical dramatisation as an example - any movie featuring, say a war, will normally portray one side as good and the other as evil.

The UK media is particularly critical of the war in Iraq. A main reason I would venture is because the sensationalism of a bad news story will always sell more papers than a good news story.

With two or more sides to each story, it does show that there are no absolutes.

 

[Just Torry]

The United States consistently tries to help other nations in need. Heaven knows we screw up royally from time to time, and the leaders of our country can prove themselves pretty stupid.

But evil?

Smashing planes into skyscrapers in the name of "God" is evil. Burying people alive as Sadaam was doing -- that's evil. Forcing 1/2 of your population to wear a body covering (see hajib) or suffer under a whip? Evil. Putting a race into a gas chamber? Evil. Slicing infants in half with swords as you invade a country (Japan in China)? Evil, evil, evil.

Being too stupid or arrogant to realize that democracy can't be implanted in a society where it is incompatible? Not evil...just...stupid. The U.S. is a great country that has done great things for all the right reasons, and a lot (a real lot) of people and nations owe this country a debt of gratitude -- much of which they've forgotten. Disagree from your spot in front of your keyboard? Picture what would have happened if we hadn't evilly intervened with the Nazis...who would have had the atom bomb for sure had we not jumped into the fray. Half the world would be eating sausages and goose stepping by now.

It's so politically incorrect to speak in a positive way about the U.S. -- even IN the U.S. Maybe someone would like to point out all the positive things other countries are doing in the world right now?

Just my 2 cents...oh, and...God Bless America!

JT

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm curious as to why you include India?

At the rate that they are industrializing, they will be consuming resources exponentially faster. Eventually, they will NEED to compete militarily for those resources or that industrialization will stop.

 

[Makalakumu]

It's profiteering corporations, of which many are partially or wholly owned by a multinational group of investors. And even though they're doing what they were meant to do as capitalists, from a the other side of the table, one can consider them evil.

I would agree with this statement, however, I would add multinational financiers because these are the guys who own "multinational corporations" in bulk.

Most people think of profiteering in the old pagan definition of evil, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

It's more complex then that because these people have more money then they know what to do with. There is a whole ideology that drives the financiers to do what they do and it all revolves around power.

They think they are better then us. They believe in eugenics and have justified what they think with that. They also justify their Hegelian manipulation of society with eugenics. The old idea that the nobility were selected by god has morphed with psuedoscience.

 

[Tez3]

Looking at the European newpapers and what media I can I think perhaps Americans are being a little paranoid as there is not nearly the interest in what America is doing as you might think. It's the nature of people that they are really only interested in what affects them so the media is full of local news. British newspapers don't carry much American news and views if you don't include stuff about 'celebrities'!
Ok the war thing, yes we do realise that the Americans joining the war albeit late turned the tide and trust me Europeans do appreciate it and do remember the war dead BUT everytime it comes up it seems as if it's forgotten what went before, that the war was almost a minor inconvenience until the Americans cam and got the baddies for us. this comes across and I'm not saying it's deliberate at all so don't get upset, as arrogance on Americans part. We've had visitors to our town from America and they always say, 'oh well if it wasn't for us you'd been speaking German' actually that's not such a sure thing, Britain had held off the Germans and would have continued to do that until the last drop of blood. Please don't patronise us, we were and are allies. You sent your soldiers and your aid (which you sold us by the way the last payments were only finished a couple of years ago) but you didn't suffer with us or know the devastation or horror of having the war in your country.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE0DD1630F933A05751C1A9609C8B63

In France anti American feeling ran high after France refused to join in the Iraq war, it was their choice but the abuse Americans threw at the French was uncalled for.
http://www.understandfrance.org/France/Intercultural.html

The article actually indicates something that I think Europeans do feel about America, not that it's evil but it's that it's still a child. We also feel that Americans judge all other countries against themselves and we are all found wanting, there's no accepting us as we are.
I did have to laugh at one piece in that article, that Americans have to tell you everything about themselves at the first meeting! We had an American fighter and his wife over so he could fight on one of our shows and they told us their entire family history which was somewhat overwhelming! it's such that I can't bring myself to repeat it as it seems to me as if it's breaking confidence yet they were quite happily discussing things in a way we found quite shocking, these were, to us, intimate famliy confidences.

 

[Bester]

Tez,
In regards to the French, I've heard stories from WW2 vets who said as they were leaving Paris after the war, there were crowds along the way who were hurling explitives and insults. It was our blood, and your blood and the Canadian's blood that freed their cheese eating asses then. They are an arrogant, thankless people, the French are.

Now, is the US Evil?
No - The US sends a **** load of humanitarian aid to troubled nations.
Yes - Secret police, unlawful detainment and fighting wars under false pretexts.

It depends on what you choose to look at. As a whole, it's no more evil and most other nations are. Sliced up, it's as good or evil as you choose to see.

 

[Ahriman]

Most of us Hungarians could go ranting about either our longer history, or about the times when we asked help from the USA and received none, or when they did almost nothing to stop our neighbours from taking most of our territory thus ensuring that Hungary will enter WWII on the side which promises to give these back. I could elaborate, but I don't feel the need to do so... I could rant about that some Americans don't even know where Hungary is while our idiot soldiers helped them in their wars quite much - at least having Kossuth streets, monuments, and the like would imply that that help was needed and appreciated. I could rant about the amount of museum stuff stolen by US troops in WWII, either lost totally or residing openly in museums there.
...
But I understand that the US doesn't have to care for us. Just understand that if this is the case, we won't care much about the US in return. And blaming the US now for things done in the past is nearly stupid. Arrogance and neglect is not evil. The amount of arrogance, neglect and ignorance some Americans display combined with the might of the nation is frightening (you'll laugh your *** off if you hear a Hungarian saying something along the lines of "kill all members of -random ethnic group-" as it's clear that we'll never have the might, but hearing the same from an American...), but still not evil.
Edited to add: but telling a Hungarian that we'd be speaking German if you didn't come is a sign of serious ignorance, which will surely upset less unemotional guys (compared to me) and will likely terminate in serious physical attacks if the Hungarian in question is a nationalist.

 

[Bester]

I have a "fan".

Secret police? You are nuttier than squirrel crap

That was actually amusing, considering how low powered the senders bigoted mind actually is. But yes, Secret Police.
Also unlawful detainment, torture, executions without trial, and other wonderful things normally viewed as "evil" and used as examples in places like Iraq. Maybe Don (who I suspect is the cowardly rep dingy) would like to refute the claims that the US has had planes take off fully loaded with prisoners, but strangely land later all empty, when the entire flight path was over open deep sea water. According to my sources (which are "Very Reliable" btw), their "cargo" was "dumped" at sea. Certainly not the actions of a "good" nation. Would my little "Dingy" like more examples, or would Dingy like to stay in their little safe bubble of ignorance, stupidity and bigotry a little bit longer?

 

[Tez3]

Tez,
In regards to the French, I've heard stories from WW2 vets who said as they were leaving Paris after the war, there were crowds along the way who were hurling explitives and insults. It was our blood, and your blood and the Canadian's blood that freed their cheese eating asses then. They are an arrogant, thankless people, the French are.

Now, is the US Evil?
No - The US sends a **** load of humanitarian aid to troubled nations.
Yes - Secret police, unlawful detainment and fighting wars under false pretexts.

It depends on what you choose to look at. As a whole, it's no more evil and most other nations are. Sliced up, it's as good or evil as you choose to see.

You don't mean the French you mean the Parisians. Like the UK France is actually made up of other countries where in many cases they actually speak another language. Provence is a case in point, they don't actually like being called French they are provencal with their own language, customs and regions. The Basques are another people, as are the Alsace. it's a common mistake to assume that France is one big country full of "French" people, it's a mistake made about the UK as well.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I remember a song once...."Paris by Air Such a beautiful sight There's nothing can compare With Paris by night"
I think it was written by a bomber crew in the 40's......

 

[Makalakumu]

In a Birmingham jail, Dr. King had the epiphany that the long arc of morality, in our society, was bent toward justice. Maybe I'm too cynical to see it anymore, but I think that Dr. King is wrong. Maybe at the time, this observation would have been correct, but there has been a lot of darkness since his death in 1968. I would say now that the arc of our society is bent towards corruption. Political corruption, moral corruption, and mental corruption.

Does this make us evil? No, but I think it is a sign of the decline of our society. Can it become evil? Yup. Make no mistake, the arc of our society is not pointing toward justice anymore.

 

[Twin Fist]

I wouldnt mind seeing some evidence of any so called secret police......

oh wait, i guess you cant, after all, they are a "secret"..................:lfao:

 

[CoryKS]

I wouldnt mind seeing some evidence of any so called secret police......

oh wait, i guess you cant, after all, they are a "secret"..................:lfao:

You can't see the secret police, you only know they exist because of the way people disappear when they speak ill of the government.

Oh, wait a minute...

:lfao:

 

[Bester]

Hr 3199

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Hr 3199

House Resolution?