Is the new generation of Martials Artist lacking in toughness?

[Thousand Kicks]

I am asking this question based on some conversations and experiences I've had over the past couple of years.

I seem to notice that the current generation of TKD pracxticioners seem less willing to put in the work required to be a good martial artist. It's like the mentality is "What is the least I have to do to be the next Bruce Lee?" Whether it's tournament sparring or just normal practice, I see people who aren't really interested in good ole fashion hard work.

My instructor occasionally has inter school tournaments with 2 other local schools. I always notice, especially in sparring, that the other schools students just aren't that tough. The head instructor of one of the other schools said that when he pushes his students or has sparring a couple of times a week, people quit. It is evident in the way his students perform. Now, I concede that a school is a business and he has to make a decision on the balance between giving the students what they want and giving them a quality program. I also understand that my dedication to the art is more than the average person is willing to commit. But, I also believe that anything worth doing is worth doing well and that usually means you're going to have to put in the work.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about McDojos.I am just wondering if you guys notice this as well.

 

[chrispillertkd]

To some extent, yes. Martial arts are almost ubiquitous now, as opposed to what things were like in the 1960s and 70s. Which means that there is more competition for students, which means if some aspects of training are likely to cause a number of people to quit those methods will either be reserved for "serious" students or jettisoned altogether. I have seen many people whose general toughness level is less than I would have thought for people of their rank/time training but there have also been plenty that have exceeded people from "back in the day" in this area.

One thing that has improved noticeably is the level of technical proficiency that some students now have. They do the techniques much better than people used to, are faster, more proficient, etc. This is the result of several things, among them simply spending a longer time training and having second and third generation instructors that spent a lot of time training with Gen. Choi and his senior students and coming to a deeper understanding of the art. I will not say that this improvement has filtered down to the general Taekwon-Do public, but I do think there is a larger number of people doing the art more correctly (for lack of a better term) than there was 40 years ago.

Pax,

Chris

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Yes. But the same can be said for most things these days, its not just exclusive to martial arts.

 

[drop bear]

It is hard unless there is a real focus on competition. People are being sold the idea that martial arts will give you an instant fix. That there is some sort of trick that will make you good. And there are always the avenues that people can choose that will give them that easier ride.

It become this idea that training to be tough is somehow cheating.

The thing is hard training can have appeal.that is the selling point of cross fit for example.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I am asking this question based on some conversations and experiences I've had over the past couple of years.

I seem to notice that the current generation of TKD pracxticioners seem less willing to put in the work required to be a good martial artist. It's like the mentality is "What is the least I have to do to be the next Bruce Lee?" Whether it's tournament sparring or just normal practice, I see people who aren't really interested in good ole fashion hard work.

My instructor occasionally has inter school tournaments with 2 other local schools. I always notice, especially in sparring, that the other schools students just aren't that tough. The head instructor of one of the other schools said that when he pushes his students or has sparring a couple of times a week, people quit. It is evident in the way his students perform. Now, I concede that a school is a business and he has to make a decision on the balance between giving the students what they want and giving them a quality program. I also understand that my dedication to the art is more than the average person is willing to commit. But, I also believe that anything worth doing is worth doing well and that usually means you're going to have to put in the work.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about McDojos.I am just wondering if you guys notice this as well.

i don't know that there is any way to generalize about "the new generation" as a whole. You have some people training with no contact at McDojos. You have other people training to be professional fighters. You have others who are at every level in-between. There are thousands of schools out there and millions of students. None of us will ever encounter more than a tiny fraction of those individuals. That means that none of us is really in a position to evaluate the comparative toughness of a whole generation of martial artists.

For the record, the people I train with these days are much tougher (on average) than the folks I trained with 20 years ago. I don't think that indicates anything about a generational shift. It's just that I developed a lot more toughness over the years and as a result am now training with a more hardcore crowd.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Yes. But the same can be said for most things these days, its not just exclusive to martial arts.

Part of the problem is that the newer generations are being raised in a 'me too/fast food/entitlement mentality. "I've been training for three WHOLE weeks...what do you mean I'm not a black belt yet!"

 

[Rumy73]

In the last decade or so, martial arts decided to market to kids and women.

 

[Rumy73]

Part of the problem is that the newer generations are being raised in a 'me too/fast food/entitlement mentality. "I've been training for three WHOLE weeks...what do you mean I'm not a black belt yet!"

Baby boomers lamenting millennials, yet they raised them.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I It's like the mentality is "What is the least I have to do to be the next Bruce Lee?" Whether it's tournament sparring or just normal practice, I see people who aren't really interested in good ole fashion hard work.

To me, the desire to do as little as possible for a superior result is a GREAT mentality.

I read a bodybuilding book years ago and the author said that your goal should be to get the workout done effectively, in as little time as possible. Life is too short to spend for example 2 hours in the gym every day, if you could get the same results with only 1 hour each day.

Plus with more training, the chance of injury (especially overuse injuries) can increase.

So I would appreciate someone who wanted to "cut the crap" and practice efficiently.

 

[Archtkd]

I seem to notice that the current generation of TKD pracxticioners seem less willing to put in the work required to be a good martial artist. It's like the mentality is "What is the least I have to do to be the next Bruce Lee?" Whether it's tournament sparring or just normal practice, I see people who aren't really interested in good ole fashion hard work.

There are hordes of tough, discipled youth and adults are out there, but taekwondo schools are having a very hard time attracting them. Reasons for that are numerous and causes are not exact. One thing that may be happening is that many of us taekwondoin, especially the teachers and dojang owners, are no longer able to show and convince the hardworking and disciplined kids why taekwondo is useful or neccessary. Many of us can't explaing to a teenager why spending time and money earning a blackbelt is any better than learning to do death defying tricks on a skateboard at the local park, for free. We can't attract the kids wresling in high school or those playing football, baskeball and other sports where tougness is called for. We can't show and convince disciplined adults why they should spend time in a taekwondo dojang instead of enrolling in an MMA school or pursuing Krav Marga, Systema, and a bunch of other combat systems whose instructors insist they are teaching the "real street deal." We can't even sell taekwondo to the adults who are trying to grow finger muscles everyday, in marathon TV remote thumping excercises. That's in part because too many of us are in no better physical shape than those fingerbuilders.

Along with all that, many taekwondo teachers and dojang owners have discovered you do not have to teach kid and adults that it's neccessary to be disciplined and hardworking to do taekwondo. They've discovered making classes too tough and having very serious curriculae can harm membership and kill a dojang instead of growing it. In fact, many of those teachers -- even the very good -- have come to believe that tough and disciplined youth and adults can be trouble makers in dojangs, because they discourage the many members who like to take it easy.

 

[Rumy73]

What does tougher mean? Sparring without protective gear? Training like a warrior from a bygone era? If a person wants that type of thing, he should join the military or get into law enforcement. Heck, even work as a bouncer. A TKD school is not pure military training; it never has been either. While it can certainly be intensely demanding, such as for those who make it to high-level competition, it is NOT some bloodsport.

 

[Archtkd]

What does tougher mean? Sparring without protective gear? Training like a warrior from a bygone era? If a person wants that type of thing, he should join the military or get into law enforcement. Heck, even work as a bouncer. A TKD school is not pure military training; it never has been either. While it can certainly be intensely demanding, such as for those who make it to high-level competition, it is NOT some bloodsport.

Good questions

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Baby boomers lamenting millennials, yet they raised them.

No baby boomers raised generation X and they are fine. Generation Y, now thats a whole other story.

 

[Rumy73]

No baby boomers raised generation X and they are fine. Generation Y, now thats a whole other story.

Gen X is struggling. Boomers are the most well-off, selfish, take-it-with-me generation the world has ever seen.

 

[drop bear]

What does tougher mean? Sparring without protective gear? Training like a warrior from a bygone era? If a person wants that type of thing, he should join the military or get into law enforcement. Heck, even work as a bouncer. A TKD school is not pure military training; it never has been either. While it can certainly be intensely demanding, such as for those who make it to high-level competition, it is NOT some bloodsport.

A lot of people are choosing physically tough activities just for the challenge and the rewards challenge brings.

I would say fight sports are tough tkd at an elite level would have to be tough. But as I mentioned cross fit sells itself on tough. And that is a booming industry.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzD9BkXGJ1M

So maybe because tkd is not marketed as tough is the issue. Tough people are going to tough people sports an non tough people are getting a rude shock and going elsewhere.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Gen X is struggling. Boomers are the most well-off, selfish, take-it-with-me generation the world has ever seen.

Generation X struggling? Not here in Australia they aint. They rode off the back of huge increases in property values just after they got into the market. They have heaps of equity in their homes, the vast majority have investment properties and they cruise around in nice cars.

 

[drop bear]

In the last decade or so, martial arts decided to market to kids and women.

I again could mention cross fit which markets towards women.

And still succeeds in marketing tough training.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5zvqNHDTf8Y

 

[Rumy73]

Then go tough. Its your life.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I again could mention cross fit which markets towards women.

I've never been to crossfit, but would have figured with the weights it would be more guys.

 

[drop bear]

I've never been to crossfit, but would have figured with the weights it would be more guys.

Yeah a lot of the really tough stuff is geared to women now.
Tough mudder is popular with women.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z7fFoTimZg

Strong is the new sexy.

I have a theory about that and women soldiers. That the idea that they are not as strong as guys is that their training has previously been a bit crap.

For functional fitness they seem to do OK. But it just takes a few years to develop it.