TKD (old school new generation)

[terryl965]

My question is why do TKD new generation have it out for the old schooler, I.E.old schooler believe in the art more than the sport,new generation believe in the sport but not the art. TKD is a universal art that should be embrace with every generation. I know my kids learn the sport but they also are learning the art because of me, because that is the way I was brought up. I only bring this up,because we went to a tournament where my oldest was ask why does he meditate before a match, and of course his reply was that is how I was thought, the other student went to his instructor and the instructor said old schooler have those wierd believes. Of course I don't really care about want people think but I just can't figure out why people just can't accept others way of life.
Thanks God Bless America

 

[MountainSage]

That one's easy! There is no money or glory in teaching an art.

Mountainsage

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Yeah, I know what you mean...Everyone I know thinks TKD is just some stupid MA sport. They don't understand anything about it being a real MA. Sadly, that's because so many Wannabe instructors have opened up so many TKD McDojo's. It stinks, giving a bad name to TKD. But I guess it doesn't matter. I don't let people get me down on that one because I just do TKD and let them see for themselves.

Not that I show off, it's just that they see that TKD isn't some wimpy MA. Funny how it's been branded a sport and not anything more.

:asian:

 

[Marginal]

That's largely because olympic style rules make the art look like a joke.

 

[terryl965]

That's largely because olympic style rules make the art look like a joke.

you are right at that amen God Bless America

 

[MountainSage]

Folk, to keep my blood pressure within acceptable limits could the terms "style" and "Olympic" not be used in the same sentence. IMHO, Olympic isn't a style. It is a set of rules used by a style for sparring matches. It's a personal problem issue, nothing more. Calling it a style might give a game some sort of legitimate basis. :boing2:

Mountainsage

 

[MichiganTKD]

As TKD progresses further away from its roots as a self defense/physical program, inevitably it will lose many of the things that made up the Art portion. These include etiquette, bowing, meditation, manners, traditional uniforms etc. As a result, to someone who was not taught manners or does not meditate, watching someone who does do them is a foreign concept. Unfortunately, in the West, we often do not understand Art, we understand winning and sports. In these areas, etiquette and manners are not emphasized, as pro athletes often demonstrate. So, to many people, manners will fall by the wayside unless they are actively pursued and maintained.

Also, many new schoolers resent old schoolers for the same reason that young people roll their eyes whenever a senior starts talking about how much better things were in the old days. The new generation doesn't want to hear about the old generation, because they didn't experience it and can't relate.

 

[TigerWoman]

Despite whether you are old/new school, we are talking about the U.S. not Korea. Meditation is not a way of life here and never was– its not our culture. It would be natural to look unusual. Our school is considered Christian, and Christian values are encouraged although two Muslims belong. We just respect each other. We don't meditate or pray in class but a prayer is said before every tournment mostly for the safety of the participants and for safety of our country's fighting men and women. Its just about respect in the beliefs of others.

 

[MountainSage]

Tigerwoman,
I would have to disagree, meditation, in a form, has been part of American culture for centuries. Prayer is a form of meditation and all culture at their base are very similar in values, it is the details of the cultures development that creates differences. The issue of old vs. young, I can only comment,"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Mountainsage

 

[MichiganTKD]

I would tend to agree. Tae Kwon Do will tend to reflect the culture it is assimilated into. In America, you're probably not going to find many people that embrace the hard core traditional Korean version of TKD, because it does not jibe with many of our values (meditation, absolute respect to Instructor and Seniors, staying with one Art and mastering it etc.). As a result, in this country, while TKD still has some of the superficial trappings of traditional MA, more and more it becomes a product of the American mind-set: competition, flash, practicality, and just learning technique. You are not going to find a whole lot of people who actively embrace the traditional form of Tae Kwon Do and MA.
For example, one school not far away from us practices Chung Do Kwan, but you'd never know it. What is emphasized are fancy uniforms, buying whatever the Instructor is selling, and getting the school as much publicity as possible. In short, this school reflects a typical American attitude.

 

[Marginal]

Despite whether you are old/new school, we are talking about the U.S. not Korea. Meditation is not a way of life here and never was– its not our culture. It would be natural to look unusual. Our school is considered Christian, and Christian values are encouraged although two Muslims belong.

Never heard of meditation, a wholly neutral act in of itself being considered a specifically religious practice. (Though Christian monks have been known to engage in it etc.) Is it supposed to be anti Christian?

 

[Han-Mi]

It is not all of us in this generation, However, you are all right. The Galmour of the sport has been taking over, more money in it. My instructor teaches the sport for fun, however the tradition is instilled in us and continues to grow through us. I wish that more people would embrace the tradition as I have, but you cannot force it upon them. I think that many instructors started out with good intentions, just trying to spread the art to more people, but many have lost the path. As for meditation, I consider fighting in itself to be a form of meditation. You slip into another conciesness(sp?) and perform feats that after finsished seem to take a greater toll on your body than they did durring the fight. And through all of this, you are able to focuse on every minute movement of your opponent. As for traditional meditation, I have only dabbled in it. I would like to get further into it, but I have trouble getting into it. Breathing excercises is the most I've really used on a day to day basis. In order to slow my heart beat and calm my body.

Anyway my whole point in this is that meditation is actually very useful in every day life and applies to everything we do. think of it as a state of mind, each state of mind is a different meditation. Plus, it's great for stress reduction.

 

[terryl965]

Well I really was'nt focusng on the aspect of meditation, just the difference in the generations, My kids meditate so they can focus on there tournament inside there mind. We are christian go to church every Sunday even when we are out of town on tournaments(I was brought up with meditation thoughout the art mainly because my father was station over sea in the orient and korea) not saying right or wrong just the way it was. the main thing is the dis respect of the new generation not only martial art but all aspect of life as well...............God Bless America

 

[TigerWoman]

Tigerwoman,
I would have to disagree, meditation, in a form, has been part of American culture for centuries. Prayer is a form of meditation and all culture at their base are very similar in values, it is the details of the cultures development that creates differences. The issue of old vs. young, I can only comment,"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Mountainsage

I believe meditation has an eastern origin. For ex: what the monks practiced is not what we practice in church with quiet reflective moments. Their's was an extreme - meditation for hours as a devotional. Prayer is not a form of meditation. Prayer and meditation are not the same thing. Yes, we can think quietly about anything, center chi or whatever and call it meditation. But prayer is talking to God. And yes, I agree all culture at their base are very similar in values.

 

[DragonFooter]

Once, my master said "Last time it was the student who seeks the master.Now it's the master who seeks the student."
Most likely new generations today can't tolerate scolding or strict rules imposed by the master or the school. Students like these will go to a more relaxed environment. Yeah, many new generations today only want a outdoor activity to occupy their time. They are not really 'into' the art. i've seen a junior who got punished doin 15 knuckle push-ups and then never heard of him again till i saw him in a WTF school.
Those that are 'into' the art are often loyal, patient and works hard for double promotions. Sadly though, there are only a handful of these students today. My school still practice traditional values but it isn't as strict as last time, except nearing grading period heh. It has to be, coz otherwise no students, no money, simple as that.
Surprisingly, this year quite a number of students joined us this year and they are mostly females. Must be violence on women escalating in the country. Night classes became self defense courses now..hmmmm