Is Tang Soo Do the same as Taekwondo?
- Thread starter TKDJUDO
- Start date
TSD and TKD were the same thing 50 years ago. They have diverged paths, however. TKD practices different forms, they spar different, and they have different basics then most TSD schools. Further, as mentioned above, there is less of a sporting aspect in TSD.
Essentially, both of these arts are rooted in Shotokan. Understanding the history of either means that you need to know about the history of "japanese" karete.
Essentially, both of these arts are rooted in Shotokan. Understanding the history of either means that you need to know about the history of "japanese" karete.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
All the shuri-te derived arts like Shotokan, TKD, and TSD look alike if the student is at a superficial level when his stance work and power generation methods are not understood or realized. When taught and practiced correctly, a student in each of those disciplines can and should look different from each other when fighting and certainly at the least when practicing forms.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
I agree with dancingalone. They all share the same roots, but they all branched off at some point and have become quite different. Shotokan places a lot of emphasis on form and it is about generating obscene amounts of power. Plus there is that ikken hisatsu thing. Taekwondo seems to be more natural, less rigid, based around speed moreso than power, and the empasis is geared more toward sparring than perfecting one's form. Tang Soo Do, while I have only watched others practice it and my experience in it is haphazard at best, looks similar to Shotokan and Taekwondo put together, but there are a lot of little quirks and clever technical variations in there (such as the execution of the high block) that make it quite different from the other two. TKD and TSD have the same "parents", but they are not twins. TSD seems to be more traditional than TKD, and they still practice a lot of the old Shotokan katas. TKD seems to be more focused on competition and it uses the newly created forms. Of course, this is only from my own experience. Hope this helps.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
I believe dancingalone's point was that an untrained eye will see them as similar if not the same. Kick, punch, block. If you don't know anything about form, stance, et cetera, it can all look alike. If you take the time to look at it closely and learn something about it, though, there are differences aplenty.
Tez—what are the main differences you've noticed?
JWLuiza
Black Belt
Hi exile,
I'm not Tez, but I have some experience with Shotokan, TKD, and TSD. Shotokan and TSD are similar (=!same) in terms of generating power through the hips. Hip positions and technique specifics do vary somewhat. However, the lines are easily crossed if a practitioner were to switch from one to the other. The big difference would be in the sparring aspect. (Focus on very strong finishing technique, ikken hisatsu, vs. 50/50 hands/feet mix of TSD with less emphasis on stopping power of individual techniques.
While TKD has some roots with both TSD and Okinawan/Japanese karate, the technique execution isn't as focused on hip rotation and precision in TKD (ITF style is closes to TSD IMHO).
But, each school is slightly different, so your mileage might vary.
Much appreciated, JWL!
My own TKD lineage, Song Moo Kwan, is very much, and deliberately, modeled on Shotokan, and hip rotation into both upper body and lower body strikes is heavily emphasized; our idea is that in the end you can simply blast through the attacker's guard, and limb destruction is the name of our game, or at least a big part of it. But it's certainly true that for schools and styles that emphasize the sport aspect, the quick tagging movements involved demand little or no hip involvement.
Mind you, I've seen a similar falling away from hard all-out power generation in Shotokan competitors who focus on sport competition for too long... :uhohh:
JWLuiza
Black Belt
Much appreciated, JWL!
My own TKD lineage, Song Moo Kwan, is very much, and deliberately, modeled on Shotokan, and hip rotation into both upper body and lower body strikes is heavily emphasized; our idea is that in the end you can simply blast through the attacker's guard, and limb destruction is the name of our game, or at least a big part of it. But it's certainly true that for schools and styles that emphasize the sport aspect, the quick tagging movements involved demand little or no hip involvement.
Mind you, I've seen a similar falling away from hard all-out power generation in Shotokan competitors who focus on sport competition for too long... :uhohh:
Yeah, old school Kwan training probably looked 98% like Japanese University Karate, which in turn was heavily influenced by Kendo training the Japanese University students acquired.
agemechanic03
Purple Belt
Much appreciated, JWL!
My own TKD lineage, Song Moo Kwan, is very much, and deliberately, modeled on Shotokan, and hip rotation into both upper body and lower body strikes is heavily emphasized; our idea is that in the end you can simply blast through the attacker's guard, and limb destruction is the name of our game, or at least a big part of it. But it's certainly true that for schools and styles that emphasize the sport aspect, the quick tagging movements involved demand little or no hip involvement.
Mind you, I've seen a similar falling away from hard all-out power generation in Shotokan competitors who focus on sport competition for too long... :uhohh:
Exile, I study TSD here in Korea, and we focus heavily on the Hip twist for the same reasons to and so does the US Soo Bahk Do. I've seen the differences too in TKD and TSD but not with a lot of experience. I got lucky with the TKD I studied in Georgia a few years back, it was a lot of SD and not so focused on the sport aspect of it.
JWLuiza
Black Belt
Hey, generalities are just that! I know I can't lump all TKD schools together. I'd guess though, that your school maintains a strong Kwan identity?
and, I think you mis-typed a joke at the end of your post... or it is too early for me to read!
Conversley, I've also seen TSD black belt exams that had horrible technique and no hip... I have a post in the Members in motion section illustrating a form and my use of hips if you'd care to check it out. I'd love to see something you do.
Best,
J
Like Terry, I'm a KKW TKDist and was taught to generate power from the hip and my school maintained no Kwan identity.
JWLuiza
Black Belt
The differential isn't lack/occurence of hip power, but with the degree of focus on technique and hip power. I've been to KKW schools and saw VERY minimal hip compared to a Shotokan or TSD school.
Again, I'd appreciate some video to compare with. As I've said, I have a video in the Members in Motion section.
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
I see. Please forgive my misstep.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Pun intentional?
Aha! I almost missed that one :lol2:! Nice catch! No it wasn't intentional, but it was still corny on my part
:lol:!
