What is Tang Soo Do?

I resort to my Confucius inspired philosophy:

What difference does it make? If you spent your time practicing rather than trying do define or discern the difference you would be beyond the need to know! :D

Frank, people are going to hate me here...:rolleyes:

I didn't know you were into Confucianist thought. I thought you limited yourself to Quietist? I learned smething new.

The essence of the "Do" as taught by martial art is an action philosophy. Though it is essentially quietist, it is a search for self perfection as a method of perfecting society. One lays the foundation by first setting in place the form, not be laying bricks in a haphazard fashion.
Are you kidding? The Ru school sums up so much of what is wrong with Western Society... How can I not be a confucian thinker?
I suppose I see your point. I must admit, I am not as well versed in confucianism as I would like. Decent resources for self-edification would be appreciated.
The Book by my former professor On Confucius by Peimin Ni Ph.D.
Its a short book but very insightful.
Then I would reccommend the Four Books

The Great Learning
The Doctrine of the Mean
The Analects of Confucius
The Book of Mencius

If you can get the translation by James Legge you will get the original classical Chinese in addition to a no nonsense literal English Translation. It's not as easy to understand as some of the more modern translations but I promise you, if any scholarly types see that volume on your shelf they will be impressed! It is the quintessential translation of the Ru texts.

Hard to find tho, out of print in the US.
Originally posted by Shinzu
that would make the understanding of both similar styles easier.

i was very happy to find a similar style because when i moved to PA there were no shotokan schools available. i would have started over if i had no choice, but i am glad i came across tang soo do.

my eyes are more opened to different systems and styles now and it is amazing to see how much of everything is incorporated into other arts.

im not sure if we will ever truly know where each sytle originated, but we should be greatful for the masters of the past that enable us to continue to practice and preserve these "ARTS"

TANG SOO! :asian:

Well maybe Korea was known as Silla in that time?
actually it was broken up into 3 kingdoms at the time and china ruled the land. Silla was one of the kingdoms.
Is it the rule of Tang Dynasty in China when this happened?
TangSooDo does not date back that far. It uses the same basic forms as modern Karate. The thing is that there are no records as to what the Hwarang , Songja or others may have used at that time, and assuming that they existed, they would have been destroyed at the close of the Yi dynasty when the Occupation took place.

I hope this helps a tad.
Originally posted by Kodanjaclay
TangSooDo does not date back that far. It uses the same basic forms as modern Karate. The thing is that there are no records as to what the Hwarang , Songja or others may have used at that time, and assuming that they existed, they would have been destroyed at the close of the Yi dynasty when the Occupation took place.

I hope this helps a tad.

i need to correct myself. japan was in control of korea at this time.

the silla kingdom deafeated the other two kingdoms with the help of china. when korea was united martial arts began to be practiced again. tang soo do gives respect to china for helping them.

thus tang soo do was born, so i believe that it did infact date back that far.

Sorry sir, but you are in error. After the occupation Native Korea arts such as SipPalGi, Sado MuSool, etc. and Sino-Korea arts such as SorimJangKwan and Sorim, were banned. The first school identifying itself as TangSooDo, which is a Modern term according to linguists, opened up in 1944 under the direction of Yi, Won Kuk. (Which was also approved and overseen by Govornor Abe, leading to the conclusion that Master YI was a Japanese sympathizer and causing him to leave the country. This is why there was a president of the CDK and a succession before he passed away.) This was the ChungDoKwan. Kwon Bup and the like all came about, and there is some dissention here, around the same time. Bear in mind that Kwan Bup means the same thing as Ch'uan fa, so it may be a Korean art, which exemplified the characteristics of Ch'uan fa and was so named in its honor, or it could be an actual Sino originated art.

1. Yi, Won-Kuk openly admitted that his art was originally Okinawa-te, and if you look at Duk, Son-Song's technique who teaches in NYC and was the second head of the CDK, you still see this.

2. Hwang Kee, whom most people consider the founder of Tang Soo Do and Moo Duk Kwan, openly admitted in his history about studying books on Japanese Kata.

3.TangSooDo is a literal translation of the original Karate-Do and further KongSooDo, used be a kwan or two, is the transliteration of the newer Zen influenced name.

4. TangSooDo bears no resemblance to arts such as Taekyun, which is still taught today by the Korea Taekyun Association, which in my mind, as I have seen it but decided not to try it, reminds me somewhere between a dance and hackey-sack. It appears to be VERY fluid.

5. With the exception of the Chil Sung hyung, Hwa Sung, Hwa Rang and the Yuk Ro, the remainder of the hyung typically practiced in TangSooDo are from the Okinawan/Japanese traditions, and further in some cases bear names almost identicial and in fact are simple transliterations: Pinan, Pyung Ahn, Bassai, Passai and so forth. This was also the driving force behind the development of the ChungHan Hyung and later the Palgwe, which are officially replaced by the Taegeuk. The actualy reason given by the Koreans at the time was that they were too Japanese and wanted to better typify Korean thought and martial culture.

Shinzu, these are facts which I have learned over the last couple of decades and are readily available to anyone. I ahve personally, as a TangSooDo Kodanja been to a Shotokan school in Richmond, VA (Dai Ichi Shotokan) and fit in perfectly save the fact I have a midnight blue belt and they wore black. What you are proposing has already been argued and been found to be untrue. I myself 15 years ag had a similar position and thourhg research found that position to be erroneous. I'm sorry but it is true. TangSooDo was originally Japanese, or atleast what we have in Korean arts was. Now there are legends about various forms being taken to Japan by the chinese, Kong San Kun (Kusanku) being one of them. The Kicho however are purely Japanese as they evolved from Itosu's teaching.
i too studied shotokan so i do know more about that then TSD. i am always eager to learn new things. thanx for the info.

although your facts are in depth it is truly hard to discover the actual truth since we were not there. everyone has their opinions and my facts come directly from a grandmaster that studied under hwang kee himself.

I have learned through experience not to believe 90% of what I am told about Korena martial arts. There is several histories written by Americans which cite sources. Not to mention, you cannot refute the information from the Koreans themselves. Don't accept anything they, or I, tell you at face value. Research it. Just remember one thing, don't let yourself get disenchanted... I let that happen to me, and once you travel down that road, it is a long hard path back.
Lee,Won Kuk founded the Chung Do Kwan in 1944 and called his style Tang Soo Do (CDK is the name of his school) From what i can see he was also the first to call it Tang Soo Do. Hwang Kee founded the Moo Duk Kwan(school) in 45 and called the style Hwa Soo Do Till around 47 then changed it to the more popular Tang Soo Do name. Also Lee,Won Kuk trained directly under Ginchin Funagoshi, founder of the Shotokan school. MITHIOS

For some reason I was thinking that he went TSD than HwaSooDo then back to TSD before finally settling on SooBahkDo. I can pull out the text and look it out, but I was wondering if off the top of your head if I am just mistaken or the first TSD was left out of your post. Considering I just moved, finding the text may present certain challenges.

Mr. Clay, I agree there is a lot of crap to dig through in the history's of korean martial art's. National pride take's it's toll on history. From my point of view Lee,won Kuk got into hot water because he did not hide the fact that most of what he learned and taught was from Japan ! Most of the other masters hid that fact and they grew when Lee had to leave. Just my 2 cent's MITHIOS
As far as i know it was Hwa Soo Do first but i could be mistaken. I don't have my research in front of me. I will check it later and see. I do think Hwang Kee was trying to get away from all thing's japanese. And that incluced Lee,Won Kuk and his TSD-CHD. MITHIOS

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