Is it worth being a good samaritan?

[Scout_379]

I was watching the news a little while ago and this story came up.
In Vancouver-
Outside a conveiniece store (possibly gas bar), the employees heard a womans screams just outside the building. The employee, one man, goes to investigate. Soon, he sees a woman being harassed. Shaken and shouted at. The man goes to try to stop this, but the womans assailant turns on him and beats the man to near death. His face cut and mangled by a broken liquor bottle. During this attack the woman flees. the man is left for dead, leaving a trail of blood kilometres long. He survives in the end, as he crawled to a nearby building.

this led me to think of a couple of other stories I had seen.

Actually, all of these stories take place in Vancouver, Vancouver news broadcasts.

Another situation, a man is walking home, when he sees a gang beating a man with fists, feet, and other weapons. As was the mans nature, he tried to put a stop to this, but he himself was nearly killed, with several hits to the face and body with a crowbar.

Last situation, a fight breaks out at a local club. the fighters are kicked out, but it does not stop there, a verbal war breaks out, and a more violent confrontation is about to happen. One woman, 20 years old, a natural peacemaker, tries to get it all to stop. She is the only casualty in the resultant gun fight.

I have retold these to the best of my memory, and there may be some holes as the 2 last stories themselves are over a year old.

 

[loki09789]

Like the saying goes "if something is worth doing, it is worth doing well." I would say being a 'good samaritan' is acting with civic minded intentions but that to do it well requires judgement and tactical sense.

Walking into a multiple attacker situation? Well meaning but not smart.
Trying to dive into a ANY situation that you are a late comer to is a delicate thing. Cops run into this all the time and probably would have loads of advice on how civilians can act on that 'good samaritan' motivation but use sound practices so that they don't add to the problem or become another victim.

Generally just letting people know that they are being watched and that their bad actions are being reported can go a long way to helping without putting yourself in further danger. Calling out things like "I have a cell phone and am calling the cops, GET OUT OF HERE!" or "I KNOW WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE (or plate number, where they live if you do....)" from a safe distance and with the smarts to make sure you have an escape route to a safe place is usually a good balance of helping without becoming a victim. Beyond that, it really comes down to the situation and what you think is the 'right' thing to do.

Moments like this are why I say that responsible firearms training, pepper spray, cell phones and other technological tools are great to have.

Empty hand training is great to teach tactics and part of the tools you need, but I am not one of those martial arts types that scoffs at applying the homo sapiens most powerful tool for success on this planet through the ages - our smarts. Train your brain like you do your body to work well in situations like these and you will get home AND be able to help in that and other moments in the future.

Brave and stupid are only a hairsbreath apart.

 

[Sarah]

If you have a cell phone you can always call the police.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

There is no way I could do nothing at all. It is just not my nature. But I agree with Paul that any help given should be done so after carefully assessing the situation first. Con men and woman unfortunately prey on people who have kind hearts. Also, sometimes in domestic violence situations, the abused party will turn on their would be rescuer. Some things are best left to the police. My cell phone is my best weapon...I just need to remember to keep it charged

 

[Bammx2]

situation assessment...........awsome advice!

If you can't deal......DON'T!
If you can....DO!
I know from personal expierience that it can go both ways even if the intentions are honorable.
I had a friend who did the ole "video" thing on an assault a few years back.
Then he realised the guy being beat(by 5) was more than likely going to die and he was going to get the whole thing on film....."whats the point in that?" he thought to himself.So he snuck up close to the fight as close as he could........ and bashed that camera across one guys head!
Stunned everybody! they ran! the intended victim lived!
I understand the "recording" of evidience in a violent act.......but I can't record a death.I feel...screw the camera. and screw the "at least it won't happen again cause I filmed it"
If you can't do it 1-on-1...get help as fast as possible! I am firm beliver in fighting fire with fire.....
If you are a runner....make them chase you.....crackheads cain't run far

Then there was the "good samaritan" in ohio who did CPR on a hear attack/ car accident victim...the victim lived.
Then he sued his rescuer cause his CPR card was expired by 2 weeks!
Luckily the judge had his name and picture(the victim) published everywhere....bet he thinks twice before having another heart attack in public

 

[Scout_379]

Paul, excellent point!

A lot of the points brought up here had not occurred to me. This is why I love MT!

 

[rmcrobertson]

One has an absolute, imperative moral responsibility to try and help, unfortunately. Of course, there are situations--for example, if you've got your three kids with you--in which this absolute responsibility has to be balanced. So far, the suggestions seem to make eminent sense to me.

Unfortunately, too, I don't think it's the big, dramatic moments in which we fall short. For example, if you have a responsibility to others who are part of your society and part of your human race, don't you also have a responsibility to avoid being a selfish greedhead who drives an SUV, wastes electricity and food, teaches your kids that it's a dog-eat-dog world and you need to grab all you can with both hands, and...you see my point.

Then too there's that great Russian quote--Chekhov?--"Any fool can handle a crisis. It's this day to day living that gets us down."

 

[Mark Weiser]

Here is another sticky point if you are an eyewitness in a death or a violent crime and the victim or the victims family finds out you had the ability or skills to intervene you will be sued and possibly face criminal charges at least here in Kansas USA you can.

So pick your battles and make sure you can win!!

Lots of times in this age of cell phones you can call the Police whom have body armour and better weapons and yes they can call all the help they need via radio. You can watch and talk to dispatch from a safe point. I would not get directly involved unless you know for sure someone will die and you have the means to assist.

You can be sued civilian and possibly criminally as I said if they find out you have a Black Belt in MA and or a background in Law Enforcement or Military.

 

[bignick]

I think you are obliged to help those that can't help themselves..maybe it doesn't always pay...if you try to break up a multi-attacker situation you might end up getting hurt. bad. But if it's clear that it's gonna escalate and the victim could die, something has to be done...like others have said...

get help, call the police, distract them....if none of these are possible, force is always the last option...

 

[shesulsa]

Recently, I was camping on our annual 1-week summer vacation. I drove into town for class one afternoon and was driving back - exhausted. Right at the end of the 30-minute drive at 10pm on winding country roads, I was about 500 feet from the campground entrance when I came across a vehicle laying on its side in the ditch. Me and the guys behind me pulled over to help. Upon seeing the guy in the ditch, we saw small amounts of blood coming from his nose and mouth, his breathing slightly labored, but he was breathing steadily. One guy got down into the ditch to see if he had a pulse, which he did and he said it seemed strong. The guys wanted to turn the guy onto his back because he was on his side with his head slightly lower than his body - hoping that being on his back would aid his breathing.

He wanted someone else (me or his buddy) to come down there and help him out.

I elected not to give care because:

#1 I am not first aid nor CPR certified,
#2 I was not sure of the source of the blood and how copious it was and
#3 I was unsure of any spinal injury.

I disuaded the others from turning him at all and when the EMTs got there, they agreed - don't move him without a C-collar.

This didn't exactly involve any self-defense situations, but we at least stopped, called the authorities, gave statements, made sure he was breathing consistently and wasn't losing huge amounts of blood or aspirating. I'm thankful that I was not required to perform CPR or other, more serious first aid, and that the guy's buddy didn't get beligerent with me.

I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same in a very bloody situation that was more serious, either. I have children to raise and I really don't need any blood-born pathogens entering my system. Kind of selfish, but what a hellish choice, really. Anyone who knows me knows I always want to help people - often to a fault. It pains me to say that I don't want to get seriously ill by helping someone who is extremely bloody. But...depends on the situation and the nature of the injury, I think, and of course, the person.

*sigh* Yuck. Don't like not helping people in need.

 

[donald]

I think that the main thing is that you do something... To just leave someone to jackals is cruel. You must use good sense. If your out numbered, or don't have the tools to handle the situation. At least call for 5-0...

Salute in Christ

 

[Tgace]

Moments like this are why I say that responsible firearms training, pepper spray, cell phones and other technological tools are great to have.

Empty hand training is great to teach tactics and part of the tools you need, but I am not one of those martial arts types that scoffs at applying the homo sapiens most powerful tool for success on this planet through the ages - our smarts. Train your brain like you do your body to work well in situations like these and you will get home AND be able to help in that and other moments in the future.

Brave and stupid are only a hairsbreath apart.

What he said....

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Anyone who knows me knows I always want to help people - often to a fault. It pains me to say that I don't want to get seriously ill by helping someone who is extremely bloody. But...depends on the situation and the nature of the injury, I think, and of course, the person.

*sigh* Yuck. Don't like not helping people in need.

Shesulsa,

You should not feel bad at all. You did the right thing. It's basic safety, and a sign of the times in which we live. In school we are taught, and teach, never to handle another person's blood without gloves on. You have no way of knowing if a person has AIDS or other blood-born disease. The fact is most people don't walk around with disposable plastic gloves on them. You have a responsibility to society, but also to your family, and you have to weigh it out. Again the call phone is handy for calling the paramedics :asian:

MJ

 

[shesulsa]

MJ -

Thanks! I don't feel bad about the situation, really, because the guy's okay and wound up in legal trouble because of some things involved in the accident and I really wouldn't have done anything different.

 

[Rob Broad]

I have helped people starnded or in accidents several times when on the Highways in Northern Ontario. I have never given though to any negative consequences when doing such. It is too bad that some people try to sue someone who has tried to help them.

 

[Mark Weiser]

A good nurse always carrys a first aid kit in the car and at home. A great Nurse knows when to use the kit. Here in Kansas if you are a Licensed Health Care Provider aka Doctor, RN, LPN, etc... and you do not stop and someone dies or disabled and they know you drove by and did not stop you may as well start writing the checks when you get home.

Oh by the way the only way they will know is if you have a bumper sticker that says " Honk if you hugged a Nurse today!"

 

[loki09789]

One has an absolute, imperative moral responsibility to try and help, unfortunately. Of course, there are situations--for example, if you've got your three kids with you--in which this absolute responsibility has to be balanced. So far, the suggestions seem to make eminent sense to me.

Unfortunately, too, I don't think it's the big, dramatic moments in which we fall short. For example, if you have a responsibility to others who are part of your society and part of your human race, don't you also have a responsibility to avoid being a selfish greedhead who drives an SUV, wastes electricity and food, teaches your kids that it's a dog-eat-dog world and you need to grab all you can with both hands, and...you see my point.

Then too there's that great Russian quote--Chekhov?--"Any fool can handle a crisis. It's this day to day living that gets us down."

For once, I actually agree with you McR at least in principle. Though I do agree that the world is a better place when people are willing to do for each other, there is no 'absolute moral' obligations to do so. If there were common courtesy would be much more common and things like "Barn raisings" where community does for each other would not be part of history but current events.

I remember when a friend, a Baptist college graduate, explained that in the orginal Greek that there were 3 words for "love" as we use it. Eros (physical attraction), Feliae (Family or sense of belonging) and Agapei (self sacrificing love)... and that there are times in the Bible when the lesson is lost in the translation because of that little subtle linguistic difference. Eros is a hugely successful marketing tool, Feliae is a nice thing to have and the subject of many talk shows, but Agapei seems to be the stuff of 'everyday heros' because it isn't actively practiced as much as it could/should be. This is not a plug for Christianity uber alles but a point about moral lessons/vision of what makes for a successful social group. In this case, the message comes from Christian teachings. Sometimes it will come from somewhere else.

I keep telling (and in some way showing by example I hope) my son that he can be an 'everyday hero' by just trying to make little differences. The hope is that 'kindness is contagious' and that a chain reaction of some kind is set in motion.

At the same time, especially with kids, I try to ensure that they 'do good deeds' but do them smart and safe as well. Too many times a child's desire to be helpful and be recognized for a good deed can be used against them by predatory types....

 

[8253]

moraly being a good sumaritan is definatly worth stepping into a situation that could get you hurt. Hopefully you are prepared to deal with the situation without it being escalated into a physical altercation. I personally would step into something if a defensless person is being physically assaulted, but if it was just someone standing there yelling at someone then maybe i would just call the local law enforcement.

 

[Ippon Ken]

Is it worth being a good samaritan?


YES.

 

[Taimishu]

If you have a cell phone you can always call the police.

That is very true Sarah and in the UK you are likely to get held in a queue and then get some (idiot) person wanting a complete statement before they will act.
Admittedly it is not the police fault as our 999 system is frequently misused.

David