Is it valid to defend your school's honour?

[Tony]

The thread on Hostility to Martial Arts got me thinking and because of a code and rules we have to obey in order to stay training with our clubs, would you allow yourself to get into a physical confrontatioin with some fool because he was disrespectful about your school, even your Instructor and training?
Personally I would not as its so obvious that such a person is on an ego trip but its not uncommom for people to want to defend the school's honoour as this was very evident 100s and 1000s of years ago.
Even my friend who has been studying Taekwondo for 2 years would most likely get into a fight if someone were mouthing off about Taekwondo, but then again he is very highly strung and quick tempored so it wouldn't take much for him to instigate a fight.
And there have been amny times when he has wanted to start a fight and tried to get me and my friend (non Martial Artist) to assist him but we have both declined. Then he has criticised us for being wimps etc for exercising sensible behaviour.

 

[Phoenix44]

My black belt certificate includes a statement that I will use my skills for "self-defense, and never for aggression."

No, I would not get into a physical altercation with some jerk who makes cracks about my school or my art. It could result in revocation of my association with the dojo, and besides, it's just plain stupid.

 

[Brother John]

Fighting NEVER upholds "honor".
If you resort to violence in response to a non-violent circumstance, you've dropped your 'honor' and there's nothing left to defend but pride.

Your Brother
John

 

[terryl965]

I totallt agree in today society anybody that would stoop down to the gutter for a fight over what somebody thought about your school and the head instructor. This is not the dinosaur age, we are highlt evolved human beings or atleast suppose to be.GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[7starmantis]

Fighting NEVER upholds "honor".
If you resort to violence in response to a non-violent circumstance, you've dropped your 'honor' and there's nothing left to defend but pride.

Your Brother
John

Very well said! I agree 100%

7sm

 

[OC Kid]

Brother John,
Your the bomb man..great answer.

As far as fighting for "schools/systems honor" alot of good people fell into that during the dojo wars of the 70s. Lots of people hurt some even killed for what? What honor? What profit???? Ego???

It boiled down to making the school/instructor money. So the instructor could say we are the best. Letting his students get hurt, beat up maimed so he could make some bucks .

The whole Idea of fighting, to me other than for my life or money (getting paid) is so utter rediculous. I really cant fathom it.

If I find any of my students fighting for other than life or money. There outta my school so fast it would make their head swim....

 

[Enson]

Very well said! I agree 100%

7sm

i second that!

 

[captnigh]

If someone I'm having a conversation with starts making derogatory comments about me, my instructor, my dojo - I'd just end the conversation. I'm not gonna get into a physical confrontation......
But if someone comes into the dojo and insults us or challenges the instructor, I'd be willing to get on the tatami to settle it. I wouldn't consider myself quick tempered or fueled by hot blooded courage.....
There's a reason myself and the other students bow when we enter or leave the dojo, bow when we step on/off the tatami, bow when the instructor starts/ends class.... respect. And if some antagonist wants to come in and disrespect the things the rest of us honor day in and day out, we have a duty to stand up for them....
One of our dojos is in a strip mall that has a sports bar, and occasionally a drunk will walk by, become interested in what we're doing, and come in. Sometimes they get riled up, but the situation is always handled without fighting. A couple of weeks ago, I was walking towards the dojo and a couple of guys in their early 20's were standing outside, watching some of the students work on sword katas. I was in street clothes, so they didn't realize I was affiliated with the dojo. One of them says, "Look at those candy-asses..." and some other remarks along the same vein. I grinned and walked in to workout....
Afterwards, my instructor and I were sitting in the sports bar having nachos (a post workout ritual :ultracool ) --- and we're sitting across from these same guys! I tell my instructor what the guys had said, and he smiles....
He goes over to the guys, says hi, and then tells them he heard what they had said, and if they like they can come over and train with us - first lesson free. He was amiable and friendly - but these guys looked downright SCARED...
To sum it up- I don't think you have to get physical to defend the honor of your dojo or instructor....but maybe you should be ready to.

 

[Taimishu]

I challenge them to a drinking contest, its not quite the same as winning a fight against idiots but it hurts less ( unless you fall off the bar stool ) and you usually end up as "al right man".

David

 

[Tony]

If someone I'm having a conversation with starts making derogatory comments about me, my instructor, my dojo - I'd just end the conversation. I'm not gonna get into a physical confrontation......
But if someone comes into the dojo and insults us or challenges the instructor, I'd be willing to get on the tatami to settle it. I wouldn't consider myself quick tempered or fueled by hot blooded courage.....
There's a reason myself and the other students bow when we enter or leave the dojo, bow when we step on/off the tatami, bow when the instructor starts/ends class.... respect. And if some antagonist wants to come in and disrespect the things the rest of us honor day in and day out, we have a duty to stand up for them....
One of our dojos is in a strip mall that has a sports bar, and occasionally a drunk will walk by, become interested in what we're doing, and come in. Sometimes they get riled up, but the situation is always handled without fighting. A couple of weeks ago, I was walking towards the dojo and a couple of guys in their early 20's were standing outside, watching some of the students work on sword katas. I was in street clothes, so they didn't realize I was affiliated with the dojo. One of them says, "Look at those candy-asses..." and some other remarks along the same vein. I grinned and walked in to workout....
Afterwards, my instructor and I were sitting in the sports bar having nachos (a post workout ritual :ultracool ) --- and we're sitting across from these same guys! I tell my instructor what the guys had said, and he smiles....
He goes over to the guys, says hi, and then tells them he heard what they had said, and if they like they can come over and train with us - first lesson free. He was amiable and friendly - but these guys looked downright SCARED...
To sum it up- I don't think you have to get physical to defend the honor of your dojo or instructor....but maybe you should be ready to.

Thats a great story about yoru Instructor Captnigh. Its great to hear of true Martial Artists who don't exhit acts of egotism. However if it were me I would do nothing because I have a great fear of being hurt but I guess as the years go on my confidence will grow.

 

[FasterthanDeath]

Once when I was 10 years old, a man came into our school. Older man, but very angry, you could tell just by how he walked in. He began to yell and scream at my Teacher. For 20 mins he was screaming. I had no idea what he was saying, he was yelling in mandarin and taking off his coat and shoes and socks as he was doing it. Finally I asked the teacher's son what was going on and he was telling me that this man wanted to fight my teacher for teaching a different way than what they were both taught. That this man was just as experinced as my teacher and that their master would not approve. There were only 5 or 6 of us there and I dont think it would of happen any other time, but my instructor accepted and walked over to the training mats. The fight lasted 30 sec, before the older man was just exhausted and beaten by a man who had no anger at all. My teacher avoided and dropped the man over and over again. Finally my teacher asked him if it was enough he submitted. But as they began to walk away, he threw one last punch at my instructor and just as quick as it was thrown, it was blocked and my teacher threw one back and shatter his nose like a bomb shooting blood everywhere. It scared me. And to this day it scares me. Later when I was 15 I asked him about that day and he said that he didnt fight the man to begin with. The man fought himself. And that he was never angry and didnt want to hurt him at all. He was a good friend of his. But when he dishonored himself and attacked my teacher afterwards, that then he fought him. And it wasnt for pride or aprroval to teach his way. But to defend himself from a attacker. He may of been motivated to attack me by pride, buy my motivation was self preservation. In regards to your question, No, no one should fight for honor or respect. But when that fight comes to your doorstep and not your schools, thats a whole different story. Just because someone doesnt think you can fight, doesnt mean that you have to show them you can. But if they come at you, DEFEND yourself, dont show yourself off.

 

[Cruentus]

The thread on Hostility to Martial Arts got me thinking and because of a code and rules we have to obey in order to stay training with our clubs, would you allow yourself to get into a physical confrontatioin with some fool because he was disrespectful about your school, even your Instructor and training?
.

Ummm.....no.

 

[Spud]

At a previous school we had some guy walk in and blow up on the head instructor, dropping F-bombs and popped him in the lip. (Guy was going through marital problems and had some delusions about his wife and a coworker – my instructor). Of course he did this in front of about a dozen youngsters.

Another black belt stepped up and peacefully got the guy out of the dojang while the cops were called. My instructor acted with great restraint by not finishing the fight. His actions reflected the philosophy of the school and I was proud of him. But on a visceral level I was disappointed that he didn’t pummel the guy. I still have some growing to do.

 

[OUMoose]

I would have to echo everyone here. My instructors always taught me that no one wins a fight, because once it's starts, you've already lost.

That said, most all of my instructors are also my friends. Therefore if someone physically attacked them, I would aid. Someone attacking my system, though, is just fishing and is best left in the dust.

 

[captnigh]

Thats a great story about yoru Instructor Captnigh. Its great to hear of true Martial Artists who don't exhit acts of egotism. However if it were me I would do nothing because I have a great fear of being hurt but I guess as the years go on my confidence will grow.

I don't think it is egotistical to offer a free lesson to someone who clearly doesn't understand what you do. But that's just me - obviously I don't have the insight or wit you do. As far as the fear of harm that plagues you, don't worry - as long as you don't stand up for yourself, I'm sure that will subside.

 

[MichiganTKD]

When my Grandmaster was still getting established in this country, he had to deal many times with students from other organizations who challenged him to fight. Many of these were Americans who had heard his reputation. One of them was one of his own students.
Generally a couple of things happened. First, he never fought in front of his own students. If a black belt wanted to fight him, he would make the guy go through the whole session first. Then, he made the challenger line up with the other black belts, same as class. If the challenger wanted to fight the Instructor, he had to fight the students first. As I was told, every challenger that walked through those doors got the crap kicked out of him by the students. Basically, our GM told the students "If you don't contact him, I will contact you!" One challenger was literally kicked 20 feet out of the dojang doors by a sliding side kick from one of the black belts.
The student of the Grandmaster had gotten a little uppity and aggressive with other students, especially lower belts. Our Grandmaster asked him if he wanted to contact them. When the guy said "yes", our GM ordered all students out, locked the doors, papered the windows, and decided to settle it. Nobody ever saw what happened. All they saw was the student lying on the floor, holding his arm, and crying. In his words "that son of a ***** hit me harder than I've ever been hit before!" Never caused a problem again.
We also had a student who, after getting black belt, went to California and picked up a lot of bad habits. He came back and promptly challenged the class. Every single black belt beat the crap out of him in sparring. He never came back.
As far as defending our school's honor, why bother? I know our quality level, and how hard we work. If he has that big of a problem with our class or Instructor, he can come to class and practice. If he wants to be a jerk, we will deal with it.

 

[8253]

There is no sense in fighting over a persons opinion of your school or your style. After all, in the end whose opinion will really change. You have your opinion and they have theirs.

 

[deadhand31]

I kind have a story to share on this. One day, a bunch of students from my school put on a presentation for a history class at the local junior high school that was studying Asia. One of the kids, after the presentation, talked to my instructor. Apparently, he was going to a dojang that was run by a guy who broke away from our school. The kid says that his instructor told him that he was the guy who trained my instructor. Rather odd, considering my instructor had gone from white to black in more than one style of tae kwon do. Instead of bursting the kid's bubble, he simply said "Well, your instructor actually learned from our school." No harsh words, no criticisms. Later, my instructor stated that it wasn't worth it to call the other guy on his lies. Basically, time would show the truth.
Sure enough, time has told. It's turning out the guy has to offer discounts to try to snag new students. He has been unable to retain students the way we have. Our instructor kicks our butts, keeps new challenges ahead of us, and we keep coming back for more. What more does he really need to do?

 

[Brother John]

I don't think it is egotistical to offer a free lesson to someone who clearly doesn't understand what you do. But that's just me - obviously I don't have the insight or wit you do. As far as the fear of harm that plagues you, don't worry - as long as you don't stand up for yourself, I'm sure that will subside.

Hey Capt.
I liked your story too.
I think that you misunderstood this guys reply. I don't think he was being snide really. It seems that he liked to hear of a martial artist who didn't exhibit egotism. In other words, he thinks your instructor did the right thing.
Unless I REALLY missed something, seems he paid a compliment.

Your Brother
John

 

[TigerWoman]

Oh, when you step OVER that line as a martial artist with skills that can kill someone, you better be ready to defend yourself to the death because you never know what the situation is, that you've gotten into, until the fight begins. So what is worth fighting to the death over? WORDS about a school - not hardly. In fact, there are no WORDS worth fighting over except those starting with "I'm going to kill you.. or someone else" TW