impatient american survivalist mentality

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

<sigh>

Funny, but my Daughter is the one who will have more manditory SD training thrust on her than the boys.

The Doc predicts my oldest boy will be about 6'4" and my younger boy will be my size (5'11") so as much as I would love them to become dedicated martial artist, I understand they might want to walk a different path.
All the same they will have a degree of compalsery training as I beleive the World is not getting easier and dangerous people are a fact of life.
Still both boys are aggressive little monsters (They allready make me cringe as I am going to break up their fights, they have great combative instincts, the eldest has a mean streak and likes to twist heads, limbs and grab throats. The younger one is a natural puncher and kicker and is fearless when angered. Therefore they wont need a whole lot of formal trainingh if they dont want it.

Now my Daughter is my little girl, allways will be and I will be damnd if someone victumizes her some day, so she will have a lot more required martial study then they (She will get instruction by others in Judo and Karate as well as time at my school). I will also train her with knives much earlier than the boys, as used right a blade makes a 5'4" woman worse than a 6'4" monster. And when dating starts, she gets a blade to take with her. Any attempted rape will be a successful castration.

She moves out and Daddy is buying her a Dog and a shotgun for the house, a pistol for her purse and a SkienDu for her person.

The above will give her peice of mind and she can focus on pink ponies and nice things.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

so as i describe someone i know.


But he has a interesting perspective sending three boys into martial arts and is also of the weapons/survivalist club.

"its all ********" is pretty much his attitude. And went through the explanation in discussing why i am doing wrong by sending my kid to taekwondo.

close as i can i will repeat this mindset.

Apparently he sent his kids for six years. Then they were getting their *** kicked by someone in jujitsu. so he went to their school and yanked them out. Went to another instructor somewhere else and asked about a "advanced, fast moving program".

his opinon is the six years was a waste of money. His boys still got their butt kicked. He said their belt in that was about worthless.

And this is why kids should not be put into black belts. And in taekwondo, six years is at least second poom, possibly third, and most likey, the school is using black belts, not poom belts.

If he were my friend, I would ask him what the context of the "but kicking" was. Was it a bully at school or his kid and this other kid just trying out what they knew? A jujutsu student learns to take people down and pretzel them and is probably training with resisting partners. The taekwondoist is practicing striking and forms solo, striking defenses in a one step format with a cooperating partner, and point fighting of some kind with a resisting partner (that includes WTF, which while full contact, is still fighting for points to a limited target area). Most TKD schools don't teach striking vs. grappling.

My solution would be to have my kids crosstrain in jujutsu, or since they're high school age or younger, get off on the cheap and put them on the wrestling team.

Perhaps partly due to the school i am not sure. The new instructor explained the curriculum, said he couldnt move the kids that quick. My friend of course, is all about quick. Figures if the military can train someone to kill in a few weeks then a martial arts instructor should be able to do it as well. So my friend says nevermind, goes to another school.The instructor gives the same speech about not being able to move the kids along that quick. He actually ended up going to a number of schools until he got the answer he wanted. Even the last saying no. But then the question comes up "well what will it cost me for you to do so?"

suddenly, at triple the price, the kids are on the fast moving program and not in regular classes.

so my friend suggests i do the same. And says he tried the regular way, they are just out to take his money, the kids learned little to nothing effective quick enough over years. And his justification is "we dont have time for this. They are out to waste our time and money." as in i dont have time either to wait ten years for my child to get to the point of being able to defend themself. He explains my daughter would probably end up raped before they teach her anything worth a damn to prevent it. And goes back to his boys and their first six years as a example. "six years and they are getting their *** kicked by a kid who spent a year in jujitso and they were a three belts ahead of them... and that was just a kid. They should have been able to defend themselves against adults after six years." and then of course again

"we don't have time for these games"...

keep in mind the background however. This is part of the weapons, guns, survivalist, prepare for the worst group.

My question to him is... but is your boys learning a art now? which of course he doesn't really care. works or it doesnt. I really want my daughter learning a art. But it does pose a couple questions.

not really sure what to make of it. Not even sure what the his boys are in now but they are in the teenage years and i have a feeling it is something a little more serious in training. Keeping my daughter in her tae for now though. she likes it. i am happy with it. But far has the time and money, preparing for the worst and legitamacy of much of the training. thoughts?

It sounds like you know what you want from your child's school and that she is happy there. Keep her there.

Respectfully tell your friend that you and your daughter are getting what you want out of the class that she takes and wish him well with his kid's new school.

To be blunt, there is nothing inherently wrong with what he wants; minus the teaching kids to kill part, he wants his kids to be training in practical techniques in a self defense oriented class that will prepare them for multiple ranges of combat. Essentially, he wants a meat and potatoes class.

But most traditional martial arts' teaching pedagogy is not set up that way and the level of hard training needed is very hard to come by these days (almost impossible in a kids class) unless you pick your school out very carefully.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

well he is also my main supplier for firearms, ammo, anything pretty much i might need including military and police assortment, tactical gear. I basically stick to the ammo and firearms but he offers a interesting amount of equipment options. His opinion has some weight with me as this is his business. He lives it sort of speak. He also took training with the school i originally took fma with years ago, also i believe part of what his kids are currently learning. And i would consider him a friend as we have similiar interests and he has helped me on occasion. The school his kids were orignally in is actually instructed by a couple people we both know. so it complicates matters that he pulled his children out and on his advice i chose to send mine to another school since we already know someone and have that connection. But i am hesitant to blame taekwondo so i can only imagine the problem must be with the slow movement of the kids in the school.

Where my daughter currently is she only had six other students in her class tonight, the school owner and a assistant instructor. so at least at entry level traditional taekwondo, where she is i am currently happy. she is as well and being a girl i don't want to push her too hard (plus her mother would freak out like she did the other night when i showed her some blade movements).

Boy or girl, a kid should be pushed to practice regularly the things that they are leanring in the class. If a kid or an adult (matters not) is not practicing except when in the class, their progress will be at a snails pace and will likely be very uneven.

Encourage her to practice, even if only fifteen minutes a day between classes (though a half an hour to an hour would be better). Let the teacher worry about the rest.

I am keeping my eyes open and looking for options as well. Maybe some one on one classes in a different art at some point once she progresses a while in her current.

Far as my friend.I believe part of their new training is jujitsu and he was also paying for the fma i mentioned above. Not sure the entires scope of it. He has my radar up however. I am also wondering if that is to a extent how this works. The more you pay, the better training you get. I am also seeing the position a school or instructor may be put in with dealing with a parent of this mentality. You are attempting to teach a art and the parent wants it NOW. Progress NOW.

Unless you are dealing with an olympic coach or something like that, no. Some of the best schools charge comparatively little.

What you pay for is usually a better facility.

Your friend is getting ripped off at the new place most likely. And he deserves to; after all, he asked them to.

Daniel

 

[Bruno@MT]

Still both boys are aggressive little monsters (They allready make me cringe as I am going to break up their fights, they have great combative instincts, the eldest has a mean streak and likes to twist heads, limbs and grab throats. The younger one is a natural puncher and kicker and is fearless when angered. Therefore they wont need a whole lot of formal trainingh if they dont want it.

I get the whole 'proud parent' thing (I am like that myself), but I hope you are also teaching them that they should not do ANY of those things unless for self defense, and not out of anger or to get their way, right?

Because otherwise it is true that they will not be messed with, but otoh they will become the kind of people that you want to protect your daughter from. And if they do those things to each other, then clearly they haven't understood that message yet.

 

[sgtmac_46]

so as i describe someone i know.


But he has a interesting perspective sending three boys into martial arts and is also of the weapons/survivalist club.

"its all ********" is pretty much his attitude. And went through the explanation in discussing why i am doing wrong by sending my kid to taekwondo.

close as i can i will repeat this mindset.

Apparently he sent his kids for six years. Then they were getting their *** kicked by someone in jujitsu. so he went to their school and yanked them out. Went to another instructor somewhere else and asked about a "advanced, fast moving program".

his opinon is the six years was a waste of money. His boys still got their butt kicked. He said their belt in that was about worthless. Perhaps partly due to the school i am not sure. The new instructor explained the curriculum, said he couldnt move the kids that quick. My friend of course, is all about quick. Figures if the military can train someone to kill in a few weeks then a martial arts instructor should be able to do it as well. So my friend says nevermind, goes to another school.The instructor gives the same speech about not being able to move the kids along that quick. He actually ended up going to a number of schools until he got the answer he wanted. Even the last saying no. But then the question comes up "well what will it cost me for you to do so?"

suddenly, at triple the price, the kids are on the fast moving program and not in regular classes.

so my friend suggests i do the same. And says he tried the regular way, they are just out to take his money, the kids learned little to nothing effective quick enough over years. And his justification is "we dont have time for this. They are out to waste our time and money." as in i dont have time either to wait ten years for my child to get to the point of being able to defend themself. He explains my daughter would probably end up raped before they teach her anything worth a damn to prevent it. And goes back to his boys and their first six years as a example. "six years and they are getting their *** kicked by a kid who spent a year in jujitso and they were a three belts ahead of them... and that was just a kid. They should have been able to defend themselves against adults after six years." and then of course again

"we don't have time for these games"...

keep in mind the background however. This is part of the weapons, guns, survivalist, prepare for the worst group.

My question to him is... but is your boys learning a art now? which of course he doesn't really care. works or it doesnt. I really want my daughter learning a art. But it does pose a couple questions.

not really sure what to make of it. Not even sure what the his boys are in now but they are in the teenage years and i have a feeling it is something a little more serious in training. Keeping my daughter in her tae for now though. she likes it. i am happy with it. But far has the time and money, preparing for the worst and legitamacy of much of the training. thoughts?

What is the question again?

 

[sgtmac_46]

Actually, my son just turned 5 years old and my intent is to start him in wrestling this fall. At this age most of what he will get out of it is becoming comfortable tumbling around on the mat, and not much else. But wrestling is an art with a lot of potential possibilities. It's a sport he can engage in as he grows older, and it's an excellent base for self-defense later when it comes time to pursue that path.

It's also 'politically correct' in the sense of not appearing to 'turn your kids in to a killing machine' despite the fact that wrestlers have extremely effective skill sets that are quite capable of doing just that.

I believe that it's a parents job to teach there kids how to cope in the world, to include being able to cope with physical violence, in order for them to be fully functional adults. Of course instilling the values that will allow them to cope in a moral and ethical fashion is equally important, and should not be neglected.

 

[MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE]

I think part of being a good parent is making sure your kids know how to fend for themselves when your not around. This could be anything from changing a light bulb, making oatmeal, what to do in a fire or getting away from a pervert.

IMO it sounds like this guy is attempting to address a deficiency in his child's ability to fend for himself. I'm not going to mention what I think the problem could be, and maybe he's going about it the wrong way.

Some people have to follow their own path.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I get the whole 'proud parent' thing (I am like that myself), but I hope you are also teaching them that they should not do ANY of those things unless for self defense, and not out of anger or to get their way, right?

Because otherwise it is true that they will not be messed with, but otoh they will become the kind of people that you want to protect your daughter from. And if they do those things to each other, then clearly they haven't understood that message yet.

They both have good hearts and yes I am very adament about how much I hate bullying and thug behaviour.

All the same brothers are brothers and brothers will fight, fact of life. The job is to not let them really hurt each other.

The big one is protective of the little one towarsds outsiders.

I am dealing with an 8 and a 5 year old here.

 

[BloodMoney]

The moral of the story is that a kid training 6 years in TKD will still get his **** handed to him by a junior Jiu jits practitioner Hes lucky it wasnt BJJ or it coulda been six months vs his six years and his kids still woulda lost

But yes, a somewhat ignorant mindset thats for sure

 

[bribrius]

i just don't know.

My kid is sparring now. Prep and training for tkd competition but i don't think she is even going to be in this one maybe the next one. It is the complete opposite of what i have been trying to teach her.

sweeps not allowed. Can only kick and punch the upper torso. Head shots have to be light. No kicking the back, legs. Basically a target on your opponents chest and that is what your allowed and that is it.

Seems to pretty much take any art out of it if your only allowed to kick and hit their chest. Most of what i have taught her, been trying to teacher her she can't use. They would just disqualify her.

Anything else, or you hit their head too hard you lose points. Nice to see her having fun, i understand why they do it this way, but it is hard to bite my tongue i am cringing watching her train. I am happy she is learning at the same time...maybe i need to start taking this less serious. I still like her school and instructer. He is great. suppose it just is what it is....

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

i just don't know.

My kid is sparring now. Prep and training for tkd competition but i don't think she is even going to be in this one maybe the next one. It is the complete opposite of what i have been trying to teach her.

sweeps not allowed. Can only kick and punch the upper torso. Head shots have to be light. No kicking the back, legs. Basically a target on your opponents chest and that is what your allowed and that is it.

Seems to pretty much take any art out of it if your only allowed to kick and hit their chest. Most of what i have taught her, been trying to teacher her she can't use. They would just disqualify her.

Anything else, or you hit their head too hard you lose points. Nice to see her having fun, i understand why they do it this way, but it is hard to bite my tongue i am cringing watching her train. I am happy she is learning at the same time...maybe i need to start taking this less serious. I still like her school and instructer. He is great. suppose it just is what it is....

Your daughter is in a sport TKD class. The key word is sport. The WTF rule set is highly specialized and makes for a dynamic, interesting, and fun kicking game with straight punches to the body thrown in for fun.

Sport TKD is fine. It keeps her moving and yes, it will help her develop good kicking skills against a resistant opponent. It will also condition her and help her to build discipline.

Is it SD? No. Teach your daughter good situational awareness and to develop her common sense, two things that protect people 99.9 percent of the time and that are sadly lacking in 99.9% of the population. I'd say that teaching her safe online habbits is almost more important than physical self defese, as predators looking for child victims are far more insideous in an online format.

Daniel

 

[Blade96]

LOL as other people said he's a nut bar.

I had taken a 2 months training in a kenpo class that also taught jujitsu and i saw a jujitsu class. Of course the kid got defeated, as i understand it jujitsu is a grappling art and taekwondo is a standup kicking art. If I stayed in Shotokan for 6 years i could still most likely get creamed by a grappler because they know how to overcome the back and forth effect we do and they dont teach people like us to fight while on the ground. Your friend should get a life.