Is Akido worth learning? (Self Defense)

stanly stud

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I have trained in Takemusu Iwama ryu & Tendo ryu Aikido. It has it´s uses, sabaki but you can´t just rely on aikido for self defence. One Aikido i could never really belive in was this below. KI Aikido taken to the limits. sorry but just NO !
 

Hanshi

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For years I taught aikido, judo and karate. Aikido dojo can differ just as much as karate dojo as far as sport vs practical. Aikido is definitely not "gentle" to uke. The falls and "slams" of aikido are harder, so to speak, than judo break falls. By that I mean they are at bizarre angles and damage to the joints occurs BEFORE the fall begins. For example, the shoulder technique, shiho nage can't even be practiced in the dojo unless it's modified to prevent serious injury. On the street, a shiho nage does massive shoulder damage before the opponent falls. This is why aikido looks so "pretty" in demos. Uke is given smooth manipulations that allow him to do a safe fall out of the technique. In actual use the techniques are snapped. The aiki throws lets the aggressor throw himself and require little to no manipulation by nage. Some overlap does exist with judo and aikido.

So yes, aikido techniques are devastating just as boxing is compared to karate point sparring. Steven Segal's first couple of movies show realistic use of aikido techniques. There is the less destructive side composed of pain compliance, come-a-longs, etc, that are sometimes taught in police academies. Another misconception is that you don't strike in aikido; this is simply not so. O sensei once stated that "atemi is 90% of aikido". Strikes, both feints and actual hits are used in combination with techniques. My sensei, now sadly deceased, taught very small circles as opposed to the grand, sweeping circles that look so beautiful in videos.
 

stanly stud

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My sensei, now sadly deceased, taught very small circles as opposed to the grand, sweeping circles that look so beautiful in videos.
I trained with an old German guy who was a direct student of Saito Sensei in Iwama. Takemusu was short & a lot of jo kata. However for outside use...not on it´s own.
 

stanly stud

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the other school of Aikido i did was Tendo Ryu. much rounder sabaki. Shimizu Sensei comes often to Germany. He was also a judo man. a lot of hip throws.
 

gpseymour

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I have trained in Takemusu Iwama ryu & Tendo ryu Aikido. It has it´s uses, sabaki but you can´t just rely on aikido for self defence. One Aikido i could never really belive in was this below. KI Aikido taken to the limits. sorry but just NO !
Tohei's organization, as I understand it, moved away from the concept of training for combat to training specifically to develop concepts of ki. I would assume their stuff isn't good for developing fighting skill.
 

stanly stud

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Tohei's organization, as I understand it, moved away from the concept of training for combat to training specifically to develop concepts of ki. I would assume their stuff isn't good for developing fighting skill.
very true. Not for me.
 

gpseymour

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For years I taught aikido, judo and karate. Aikido dojo can differ just as much as karate dojo as far as sport vs practical. Aikido is definitely not "gentle" to uke. The falls and "slams" of aikido are harder, so to speak, than judo break falls. By that I mean they are at bizarre angles and damage to the joints occurs BEFORE the fall begins. For example, the shoulder technique, shiho nage can't even be practiced in the dojo unless it's modified to prevent serious injury. On the street, a shiho nage does massive shoulder damage before the opponent falls. This is why aikido looks so "pretty" in demos. Uke is given smooth manipulations that allow him to do a safe fall out of the technique. In actual use the techniques are snapped. The aiki throws lets the aggressor throw himself and require little to no manipulation by nage. Some overlap does exist with judo and aikido.

So yes, aikido techniques are devastating just as boxing is compared to karate point sparring. Steven Segal's first couple of movies show realistic use of aikido techniques. There is the less destructive side composed of pain compliance, come-a-longs, etc, that are sometimes taught in police academies. Another misconception is that you don't strike in aikido; this is simply not so. O sensei once stated that "atemi is 90% of aikido". Strikes, both feints and actual hits are used in combination with techniques. My sensei, now sadly deceased, taught very small circles as opposed to the grand, sweeping circles that look so beautiful in videos.
In NGA, shiho nage ("Pivot Takedown" to us) is practiced as a leverage lock, with uke's elbow kept high. This takes most of the strain off the shoulder. Most schools do a bit of slow practice with the extended version (closer to what you're probably used to), so we know the adjustment to attack that shoulder. That's a not-nice technique, that is.
 

stanly stud

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I think if i was going to train in Aikido now knowing what i now know i would look at Tomiki Aikido.
 

gpseymour

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the other school of Aikido i did was Tendo Ryu. much rounder sabaki. Shimizu Sensei comes often to Germany. He was also a judo man. a lot of hip throws.
I think Aikido works much better if the practitioner has some Judo experience (or something Judo-like is taught as part of the curriculum). It seems to really tie up some fundamentals that are hard to learn in common Aikido practice.
 

stanly stud

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it has a competition aspect which i find useful. Tomiki was a high ranked Judo master. really did bring randori into it.
 

stanly stud

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If I were starting over, I'd definitely look for that. Never had an opportunity to train at a Tomiki dojo.
yes it backs up your comment about Judo & Aikido. That is exactly what Tomiki Sensei did
 

gpseymour

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it has a competition aspect which i find useful. Tomiki was a high ranked Judo master. really did bring randori into it.
And Judo-style randori brings a lot of understanding to grappling fundamentals. Without it, it's easy to fail to learn some of them for a long time.
 

stanly stud

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And Judo-style randori brings a lot of understanding to grappling fundamentals. Without it, it's easy to fail to learn some of them for a long time.
It´s funny because when i was a kid in scotland people used to say judo is no use only striking boxing or karate. Later as we all know the Gracies changed all that to a large degree with BJJ.
Yes Judo is great !
 

hoshin1600

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. One Aikido i could never really belive in was this below. KI Aikido taken to the limits. sorry but just NO !
my primary teacher had studied in California in Shin Shin Toitsu, Ki society, and yes the direction and purpose of that training was not self defense but rather self development. Sensei would read from the book KI in daily life every class. which as time passed bothered me because we belonged to AAA under Toyota and would train with him on the regular.
 

stanly stud

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my primary teacher had studied in California in Shin Shin Toitsu, Ki society, and yes the direction and purpose of that training was not self defense but rather self development. Sensei would read from the book KI in daily life every class. which as time passed bothered me because we belonged to AAA under Toyota and would train with him on the regular.
yeah i mean if you like it & it gives you peace do it. maybe more important as we get older. peace of mind.
 

MetalBoar

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I've done a fair amount of Aikido and a lot of Hapkido (and other arts). I think that when it comes to self defense, Aikido, as it is frequently taught, by itself, is a long road to follow if your goal is defending yourself from assault. If you want to be able to defend yourself from a mugging or a drunk jerk in a bar you're probably going to be a lot more effective a lot faster if you go study boxing, BJJ, or some TMA that's focused on quickly developing basic fighting skills. Your Aikido is likely to be a lot better if you've done those things as well.

That being said, if your goal is protecting yourself from injury, getting really practiced at any art that deeply ingrains good, reflexive, high falls and break falls will likely serve you very well and Aikido is probably one of the better choices for developing this skill. I know that I've avoided potentially serious injury several times because I instinctively respond with a mostly respectable break fall or roll when I lose my footing or get knocked over even though it's been close to 20 years since I last spent a lot of time doing high falls.

One of the most impressive examples of martial arts application for self protection I've ever seen in a real world situation was by a friend of mine with several years of Judo and Hapkido training. This was 20 years ago when he was moving into a new apartment. He was carrying a huge CRT TV - he was 6'3" and weighed about 230lbs. without a lot of excess fat and the TV was still a struggle for him to carry by himself. He couldn't see where he was going very well and stepped off the sidewalk into a gravel filled gardening bed. Both of his feet shot straight out from under him, he fell straight backwards onto concrete and the TV shot straight up in the air! He executed a perfect breakfall on the sidewalk, slapped, bounced up and caught the TV and cradled it to his chest, then just as he was about to hit the ground again once again slapped off the ground re-caught the TV and eased it down on top of himself. He walked away from it with no injury at all and the TV was undamaged. I'm pretty sure he hasn't had to use either Judo or Hapkido to defend himself from attack but they sure saved him from injury that time!
 

stanly stud

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I like chain punches or arrow punches as they are called. However i train other punches upper cut. Even swinging outer punches can be useful in a fight.
I believe Choy lay Fut use a lot of swinging punches. Only saw it a couple of times.
 

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