Is Akido worth learning? (Self Defense)

isshinryuronin

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I mean they are at bizarre angles and damage to the joints occurs BEFORE the fall begins.
taught very small circles as opposed to the grand, sweeping circles that look so beautiful in videos.

Not an Aikido guy (though I read "The Dynamic Sphere" with interest), but as an Okinawan TMA guy, the joint locks and subsequent takedowns are as you describe - tight and close in with damage done before the opponent is on his way down. Like the style you were referencing, seito Okinawan karate does not have much flair to the untrained eye.
 

Hanzou

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If you find a real Aikido school, yes.

The problem is that there's so many bad Aikido schools out there that it makes finding a real one very difficult.

You're honestly better off just looking into a Judo or Bjj school. Especially Judo if you're looking for that Japanese flavor. Once you get your black belt in Judo (or Purple in Bjj), you can pretty much go to any Aikido school you want and apply their principles to what you already know.
 

Gerry Seymour

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If you find a real Aikido school, yes.

The problem is that there's so many bad Aikido schools out there that it makes finding a real one very difficult.

You're honestly better off just looking into a Judo or Bjj school. Especially Judo if you're looking for that Japanese flavor. Once you get your black belt in Judo (or Purple in Bjj), you can pretty much go to any Aikido school you want and apply their principles to what you already know.
I'd argue you don't need to get to black/purple for that to be true. A solid BJJ blue belt (if coming from a school that does sufficient standing work) would have a reasonable grasp on the grappling principles needed to understand how to apply what's being developed in those Aikido drills. I'm not sure what level of Judo player I'd say here, but if they've trained a year at a good place, that's probably enough foundation to change how they view Aikido.
 

Hanzou

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I'd argue you don't need to get to black/purple for that to be true. A solid BJJ blue belt (if coming from a school that does sufficient standing work) would have a reasonable grasp on the grappling principles needed to understand how to apply what's being developed in those Aikido drills. I'm not sure what level of Judo player I'd say here, but if they've trained a year at a good place, that's probably enough foundation to change how they view Aikido.

A solid blue is fair. I just tend to go for purple because that's a safer bet. But yeah, a 2-3 stripe Blue belt should be good enough.
 

drop bear

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If you find a real Aikido school, yes.

The problem is that there's so many bad Aikido schools out there that it makes finding a real one very difficult.

You're honestly better off just looking into a Judo or Bjj school. Especially Judo if you're looking for that Japanese flavor. Once you get your black belt in Judo (or Purple in Bjj), you can pretty much go to any Aikido school you want and apply their principles to what you already know.

More importantly if you are about defeating someone without maiming them bjj, judo, wrestling. Do that on a more consistent basis.

Because you are not supposed to break your training partners.
 

JP3

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If you find a real Aikido school, yes.

The problem is that there's so many bad Aikido schools out there that it makes finding a real one very difficult.

You're honestly better off just looking into a Judo or Bjj school. Especially Judo if you're looking for that Japanese flavor. Once you get your black belt in Judo (or Purple in Bjj), you can pretty much go to any Aikido school you want and apply their principles to what you already know.
If you follow the above advice, which IS sound in my opinion, you've got to be the kind of student that doesn't just "do what the class is doing," but pays attention to what the instructor is saying and what actual concept they're trying to convey.

It's quite difficult to just "understand" the total sphere that is the principle of "Body Drop and Body Rise"unles you really dig in with your mind.
 

Acronym

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Not intended as insult but do you catch a sweat or build any sort of conditioning when training Akikai?
 

MetalBoar

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Not intended as insult but do you catch a sweat or build any sort of conditioning when training Akikai?
Depends on the school. Most dojos will probably do more for you than brisk walking but maybe not much more. Some will do much more than that. If you're primary goal is getting a good workout in as part of your training you will almost certainly get a more intense workout from boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, TKD, or other sport related arts and will likely get a better workout from other TMA's that are more focused on more aggressive techniques.
 

isshinryuronin

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Anything is worth learning. Wether it's embraced or influences you in some way, depends. But, what the hell, give it a shot.

So true. Well, maybe not "anything," but almost. Regardless of your views on the efficacy of Aikido against a resisting opponent, there are many great elements in it. Smoothness of motion, flowing with the opponent, concept of center, etc... These can all be used in other MA. Could you live without aikido? Sure. But when you study one art, and find similarities from another art, it helps reinforce those concepts.

Just yesterday, I was watching an ex-Gracie (personal) student BJJ blackbelt work out a little on arm options when a triangle choke is not doing its thing. Based on the top guy's exact position, one arm or the other could be taken and put in a submission lock with a subtle shift of the hips. I was much impressed of how an adjustment of just a few inches can lead from a choke with the legs to a submitting arm lock (with the legs now quietly assisting in providing body torque.)

I am trying to process this way of switching from one technique to a completely different one (without hardly moving) and how it can relate to karate. Yes, I already use this general concept in karate, but seeing it in this fashion from such a different art as BJJ puts a new slant on it. Perhaps some specific elements can be useful in some way to my primary art. As Buka recommends, I'll give it a shot.
 

Hanzou

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So true. Well, maybe not "anything," but almost. Regardless of your views on the efficacy of Aikido against a resisting opponent, there are many great elements in it. Smoothness of motion, flowing with the opponent, concept of center, etc... These can all be used in other MA. Could you live without aikido? Sure. But when you study one art, and find similarities from another art, it helps reinforce those concepts.

Just yesterday, I was watching an ex-Gracie (personal) student BJJ blackbelt work out a little on arm options when a triangle choke is not doing its thing. Based on the top guy's exact position, one arm or the other could be taken and put in a submission lock with a subtle shift of the hips. I was much impressed of how an adjustment of just a few inches can lead from a choke with the legs to a submitting arm lock (with the legs now quietly assisting in providing body torque.)

I am trying to process this way of switching from one technique to a completely different one (without hardly moving) and how it can relate to karate. Yes, I already use this general concept in karate, but seeing it in this fashion from such a different art as BJJ puts a new slant on it. Perhaps some specific elements can be useful in some way to my primary art. As Buka recommends, I'll give it a shot.

Next time, have your personal student show you the Omoplata (shoulder lock) from a failed triangle. That's my personal fave combination from the Triangle set up.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Not intended as insult but do you catch a sweat or build any sort of conditioning when training Akikai?
That will depend where you train and how much effort you put in. One of the most physically demanding classes Is be participated in was an Aikikiai class in Lisbon. Several others Ive attended elsewhere were among the least demanding.
 

drop bear

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Next time, have your personal student show you the Omoplata (shoulder lock) from a failed triangle. That's my personal fave combination from the Triangle set up.
I think the Triangle is locked on there and he is just finishing with the arm bar.

But thread the Triangle ompaloompa armbar sequence is probably a must for learning the Triangle.
 

isshinryuronin

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Next time, have your personal student show you the Omoplata (shoulder lock) from a failed triangle. That's my personal fave combination from the Triangle set up.

Just to clarify - I think you misread. This BJJ senior blackbelt is not my personal student, but was Royce Gracie's (if my memory is correct - possibly were contemporary students?) We just practice/teach at the same location.
 

Tenshin

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Best thing to do is go to an Aikido school and see first hand. I have been to many Aikido schools and there is mostly compliance, little to no resistance, and Uke throwing/projecting themselves. It has a different feel to how Judo/Wrestling/BJJ approaches things, I never had any of them do any of that.
All the Aikido guys are nice people, sincere, and enjoy the art from the ones I have met at different dojo.
 

dvcochran

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Best thing to do is go to an Aikido school and see first hand. I have been to many Aikido schools and there is mostly compliance, little to no resistance, and Uke throwing/projecting themselves. It has a different feel to how Judo/Wrestling/BJJ approaches things, I never had any of them do any of that.
All the Aikido guys are nice people, sincere, and enjoy the art from the ones I have met at different dojo.
Tenshin, I love your avatar!
 

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Ive visited two aikido schools that I was highly impressed with, and one that I was not.

Ive been told of one or two more, by people whose judgement I trust, that were also impressive and rigorous.

So it depends on the school and the instructor (anyone ever heard that before, in the martial arts?) but yes, if you are interested in that approach, of course it is worth learning.

I always point out that people need to find a system that is a good match for them personally, along with a skilled and knowledgeable teacher with whom they have a good rapport. No system is equally good for everyone, all other things being equal.

I think its a mistake, at least as a beginner, to approach this with the thought of, I need to collect a background in certain kinds of fighting. For most people, the issues I pointed out above are more important and you need to find that good fit, for you. That is what will keep you training in the long run, and ultimately will give you the best chance of success in your training.

People who are interested in competition have a greater need to seek out the blend of skills that best works within the competition rules. But for most people who are not interested in competition it isnt as relevant and isnt something that needs to be worried about if you arent otherwise interested in pursuing multiple methods.
 

Hanzou

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If you're looking for self defense, a school that's offering little resistance training isn't going to be of much use to you when you need to protect yourself. Unfortunately there's quite a bit of that in modern Aikido.
 

Ivan

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Hey all genuine question here!


Firstly I am from a FMA/Boxing background. I have heard of Akido and was Intrested.

How It all came about Is I searched how many styles does the Green Arrow/Batman the canary the DC comics and the regular show actually known they look at certain moves and try to conclude without doubt what styles they know.


Anyways they showed a move and It said It was popular the moves he uses thier Is Akido and then showed something. It's widely believed Batman knows over 100 different types of Martial Arts and has trained for years and Is highly ranked In all of them. It's said he's familiar with any type of martial arts very non realistic I know!

I read up about Akido and It's Intresting. It's known as the 'Martial Art Of Peace'. Uses minimal force and Is more peaceful and Is not designed for the aim to purely kill or break bones. Taekwondo and others for example have deadly kicks. You might be the smallest guy In the room but learning how to tornado kick especially to the head Is deadly. Hit someone In the right place and giving It a good kicking could cause some serious damage.

From what I read Akido was designed more for self defense then Attacking Is about either playing dirty or doing whatever It takes to quickly end a confrontation It's not as brutal and offence orientated. That's why It has caught my attention I want to study Akido with other more lethal techniques/styles!

As compare to boxing where you smash your opponent and just flat out attack them.

Like I say boxing more of a attack/defend sort of fighting style Akido Is just do whatever It takes to really hurt them or put them on the ground or out them in some sort of vulnerable position get them out of action.

I've seen a guy called Akido flow on youtube and he said you can either be dirty like Muay Thai Elbows Knees kicks ect, or just throw them down get behind them and tackle them to the ground or hold them In a lock. You can either be brutal or alot milder.


I like the way you deflect and get around poeple In Akido and try to put them In lock or Immobilise them temporarily.

It's not a martial designed to kill maim or break bones at first glance anyway.


It's designed to put poeple down or defuse situations either using brutal techniques or softer ones. U can use a fist or slap them hard ect.

The philosophy of Akido I don't think Is kill or hurt like the others. Karate, Wing Chun, Ninjustu, Taekwondo, Copiera, Muay Thai, Hapkido, and alot of others I think are alot more aggressive to them.


I also think Akido with other styles Is effective to.


Here's my question though, has anyone known anyone to effectively or yourself If your skilled In Akido has anyone used It? Or Is It just a **** style to learn altogether?


I've talked to numerous poeple and read alot about Akido and loads of poeple look down upon It. Stuff like Akido Is a waste of time ect ect. It's useless this and that. I was told by someone yesterday who has street fighting experience (basically freestyle fighting learned off gypsies bareknuckle and abit of Karate/Wing Chun/Judo experience.) His main experience Is backstreet fighting and a few martial arts.


He used to have fights regularly and drunken brawls for money and for fun. He said out of all the various arts he's done he said Akido was awful. But he's never said he's done akido lol contradictory or what!


Now from what I've read the pro's and con's of Akido!

Benefits:

*Not designed purely to maim Injure or kill
*Lots of mild grabs and locks that can stop fights by applying pressure and fancy moves to dodge them.

*The way they move and flick someone over (tirae Marnargie) or whatever you call It.
*good for fitness and footwork
*learning anything will help against an untrained attacker.


Cons:

*I've heard most of the philosophy Is about causing as little permanent damage as possible so It's not designed to be lethal and deadly. This Is why I think loads of poeple bash Akido.

I think it's more designed to put poeple down or give them a few painful injurys and then put them in locks If you wanted to. It's not designed to be bone crushing and lethal like Mauy Thai or taekwondo Is . It can be lethal If you want to add elbows and kicks and punches to sensitive parts you can do some damage. I think most Akido experts only use brutal techniques against poeple who are dangerous carry knives, ect then they just go full out kicks to kneecaps kick to the balls bone crushing blows ect. For milder opponents just put them in locks or twist limbs until they no longer a threat minimal damage martial art techniques ect.

*Most effective techniques I've heard take a few years to master properly and actually use. Basically to be able to use Akido to It's full potential have a wide range of sparring partners and do It for atleast a few years.


And that's It.......



So has Akido helped you against armed Asilants?

Has Akido helped you against any street thugs?


And Is Akido effective In general?


Do you regret taking Akido classes?





And PS: I know any martial art If well trained and a good fighter and good techniques and form are used It can be deadly. Someone I know who Is highly skilled In 3 types of Kung Fu said Thai Chi (thai-cheee) for example poeple think It's more like yoga lol. But he said It's an actual art depends on how you apply It. If trained In a combat way and you use It In a offensive way and you practice and spar alot you are actually leaning a martial art just they don't usually spare and It's seen as more of a relaxing technique.
You described the main problem with Aikido, in my opinion, right there. It's specifically designed to immobilise, but not hurt. I have disdain for this because out of all the confrontations I have had, my opponents never went easy on me, and the idea that I should is something I disagree with.

There is a very good book about Aikido called Angry White Pyjamas, a real page-turner. My father also has a friend who has been doing Aikido for a while and claimed he watched him defend himself from a drunk quite skillfully. But if I am honest, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage nowadays if you choose to train in martial arts such as Aikido. This is because it trains through repetition, and though I am a traditionalist, it's simply a method of training that won't allow you to use Aikido for self-defense until you have dedicated yourself to it for a long time.

In contrast, modern arts such as Boxing and Sambo, even though they're not necessarily made for self-defense, teach you things from your very first lesson that you can apply almost as soon you walk out of the lesson. Aikido has thousands of techniques - Boxing has 4 punches (with some slight variations) and 5 defenses at most. It also encourages sparring, and unless your school of aikido does too, you're already at a disadvantage compared to the average boxing gym.
 
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