Pros/Cons of the blitz method

[qwksilver61]

Has anyone here has ever seen Leung Ting or Emin Boztepe in action or their advanced students fight? If you were to read/learn their grading system,it explains quite a bit as to what a student achieves as he/her progresses.More advanced,more deadly force that can be delivered.Chi sao is likened to being on auto pilot once contact & and the wiring in is achieved,borrowing your opponents force is a head rush (turnstile effect,ie;larger opponent shoving his punch at you turning you at a forty-five,add your straight line attack,along with hundreds of chain punches (ie;hours on the wall bag,SMACK down power development) what is a few punches delivered in a few seconds with that kind of momentum?Good stuff! Works real good for some of us.

 

[brocklee]

Has anyone here has ever seen Leung Ting or Emin Boztepe in action or their advanced students fight? If you were to read/learn their grading system,it explains quite a bit as to what a student achieves as he/her progresses.More advanced,more deadly force that can be delivered.Chi sao is likened to being on auto pilot once contact & and the wiring in is achieved,borrowing your opponents force is a head rush (turnstile effect,ie;larger opponent shoving his punch at you turning you at a forty-five,add your straight line attack,along with hundreds of chain punches (ie;hours on the wall bag,SMACK down power development) what is a few punches delivered in a few seconds with that kind of momentum?Good stuff! Works real good for some of us.

I used to study the LT version of wing chun. What's he call himself now? Grand Master of the Almighty? How long have you been studying WT for? I accidentally contracted myself into a few of the classes and got out because I realized when I would ask a question, the answer I was getting was "I dunno why". Or the answer plain out didn't make sense.

The grading system is to keep students stuck for as long as possible. To ensure that a certain sum of $$ is obtained before reaching the next level. It shouldn't take a year and a half to chi sao and chi sao shouldn't become an auto pilot kinda of thing. Hundreds of chain punches = hundreds of punches to many, if you follow the basic guidelines of efficiency.

Turn style rotates you off of the center axis. Good bye structure

 

[KamonGuy2]

Hahaha Brocklee, you are my new hero!!

Leung Ting is the master of the deadly talk. He is not a bad wing chunner, but teaches bad wing chun. Bozteppi distances himself a lot from LT and a lot of senior grades of WT tend to claim that their art is amazingly deadly.

Wing chun gets a lot of flack from other arts because of this kind of claim. Wing chun is no more deadly than any other art. It is quick and to the point, but it will not kill you with one strike!

There was a good clip of WT and LT on 'Mind, Body and Kick *** moves' where his students demonstrated chain punching. It was extremely poor

 

[brocklee]

Hahaha Brocklee, you are my new hero!!

Leung Ting is the master of the deadly talk. He is not a bad wing chunner, but teaches bad wing chun. Bozteppi distances himself a lot from LT and a lot of senior grades of WT tend to claim that their art is amazingly deadly.

Wing chun gets a lot of flack from other arts because of this kind of claim. Wing chun is no more deadly than any other art. It is quick and to the point, but it will not kill you with one strike!

There was a good clip of WT and LT on 'Mind, Body and Kick *** moves' where his students demonstrated chain punching. It was extremely poor

I have seen the video you talking about, looked kool. My sifu tells me, "if you want to see how good LT WC is, take a look at his pole video." Apparently, the pole works the practitioner as oppose to the practitioner working the pole.

 

[Si-Je]

Ouch! Everyone tired of LT WT. lol!
He does blab too much, can't stand to watch his videos!

I think alot of people go too far with the "blitz method" as an end all to be all. Especially dudes.
If you start a fight off with it, it could work as an element of surprise, or your strength could get you through (if your strong), but at times it can allow you to be lead into what a boxer, or MMA/grappler (blegth!) , or wiley opponent may want to set you up for attack. Using too much aggression can often make you UBER vulnerable!

But.. it is definiately cruitial! If the opponent is larger you'll not be able to knock them out in one blow. Unless your just lucky and/or study pressure points all day long.
And Wing Chun's claim to being deadly and devastating is accurate, practical, and true. It's not like it's claiming to be like Dim Mak, one touch, strike one kill. get real. pay attention.

It's devastating because you defend and attack at the same time, follow up with "blitzing" and punch them till they fall down. Or if their bigger, kick AND punch them till they fall down. Blitzing does not take away the power in Wing Chun's punching technique, it amplifies it.

If your opponent is stronger and you have to pivot 45 degrees whatever, you keep YOUR centerline on them and blitz from there, usually striking them repeatedly in the side of the head, neck, or at the back of the spine/neck whatever. Your more likely to get a knockout from this position than from a face to face blitzing straight in type approach. I see guys doing this alot. I try it and usually eat some big dudes chest, shoulder or elbow. Or, I kick the knee as I "blitz", this brings the taller guys face to my level and makes chain punching effective.

Now MMA guys tend to punch and back off at the same time, so blitzing is not always wise. This sets you up for grappling, a knock out, whatever. Don't chase them. This is where sensitivity saves your butt.
You feel them, you blitz them until they run away. Then chill. Wait until you have contact again. Punch and kick alot. and follow where you feel them move. If you lose contact don't chase the opponent, if they grapple, anti-grappling kicks in, knees, elbows, forearm shivers, whatever. If they give you their head and shoot in, enjoy the gift and keep the head as they take you down. punch it too, since it's there.

Just a little tiny woman's insight.

 

[brocklee]

Ouch! Everyone tired of LT WT. lol!
He does blab too much, can't stand to watch his videos!

I think alot of people go too far with the "blitz method" as an end all to be all. Especially dudes.
If you start a fight off with it, it could work as an element of surprise, or your strength could get you through (if your strong), but at times it can allow you to be lead into what a boxer, or MMA/grappler (blegth!) , or wiley opponent may want to set you up for attack. Using too much aggression can often make you UBER vulnerable!

But.. it is definiately cruitial! If the opponent is larger you'll not be able to knock them out in one blow. Unless your just lucky and/or study pressure points all day long.
And Wing Chun's claim to being deadly and devastating is accurate, practical, and true. It's not like it's claiming to be like Dim Mak, one touch, strike one kill. get real. pay attention.

It's devastating because you defend and attack at the same time, follow up with "blitzing" and punch them till they fall down. Or if their bigger, kick AND punch them till they fall down. Blitzing does not take away the power in Wing Chun's punching technique, it amplifies it.

If your opponent is stronger and you have to pivot 45 degrees whatever, you keep YOUR centerline on them and blitz from there, usually striking them repeatedly in the side of the head, neck, or at the back of the spine/neck whatever. Your more likely to get a knockout from this position than from a face to face blitzing straight in type approach. I see guys doing this alot. I try it and usually eat some big dudes chest, shoulder or elbow. Or, I kick the knee as I "blitz", this brings the taller guys face to my level and makes chain punching effective.

Now MMA guys tend to punch and back off at the same time, so blitzing is not always wise. This sets you up for grappling, a knock out, whatever. Don't chase them. This is where sensitivity saves your butt.
You feel them, you blitz them until they run away. Then chill. Wait until you have contact again. Punch and kick alot. and follow where you feel them move. If you lose contact don't chase the opponent, if they grapple, anti-grappling kicks in, knees, elbows, forearm shivers, whatever. If they give you their head and shoot in, enjoy the gift and keep the head as they take you down. punch it too, since it's there.

Just a little tiny woman's insight.

Yer very right and seem to be right almost all the time. Great post

 

[AceHBK]

Ok so I saw this in a movie so tell me if it is totally false....

in WC size does matter in how u attack opponents..

If you are a smaller person and taking on a larger person (say twice ya size) , you try to do a majority of your counter attacking from the side to avoid blows direct on.

If your a large person you don't worry about using counter attacks from the side but focus primarily on a str8 fwd attack.

Total b.s or somewhat true?

 

[qwksilver61]

Sorry to say but,why are some of you attacking Wing Tsun in a Wing Chun Forum? Kind of pointless? What does this have to do with MMA? If you had spent any amount of time in the Leung Ting system or know anything about his lineage you would say otherwise,again most want fast food fast.My advice
attend a seminar,ask the senior instructor in a friendly manner or the senior students for a real demo,say maybe a one on one,you and that person and see what develops.You might be surprised. I met Ting personally,and he is an amazing and humble human being who possesses an ancient Chinese art.
Obviously you did not possess the patience to learn properly.Besides why would any of you even attempt to discredit someones Sifu? You are Martial artists? Who are your instructors? I would not even think of dissing them,or bad mouthing anyone.
This forum is starting to remind me of some of the chat rooms.Too bad,I thought some people had a little more class.

 

[AceHBK]

Sorry to say but,why are some of you attacking Wing Tsun in a Wing Chun Forum? Kind of pointless? What does this have to do with MMA? If you had spent any amount of time in the Leung Ting system or know anything about his lineage you would say otherwise,again most want fast food fast.My advice
attend a seminar,ask the senior instructor in a friendly manner or the senior students for a real demo,say maybe a one on one,you and that person and see what develops.You might be surprised. I met Ting personally,and he is an amazing and humble human being who possesses an ancient Chinese art.
Obviously you did not possess the patience to learn properly.Besides why would any of you even attempt to discredit someones Sifu? You are Martial artists? Who are your instructors? I would not even think of dissing them,or bad mouthing anyone.
This forum is starting to remind me of some of the chat rooms.Too bad,I thought some people had a little more class.

Never take criticism personally. Messageboards are places for people to provide their opinions on things and that is what happens. If you expect everyone to be kissy kissy and hold hands and agree all the time your in the wrong place. Only thru debate do we learn more.

From what I have seen in WC the debate will always be there b/c of the amount of politics that goes on, don't wear ya heart on ya sleeve.

Instead of attacking maybe you should answer with something to combat their arguments. Just how you don't agree with them, there are many who don't agree with you.

Also, who else isbetter to receive criticism on a art? I would listen to practitioner sof that art before I would people who do not practice it.

 

[brocklee]

Sorry to say but,why are some of you attacking Wing Tsun in a Wing Chun Forum? Kind of pointless? What does this have to do with MMA? If you had spent any amount of time in the Leung Ting system or know anything about his lineage you would say otherwise,again most want fast food fast.My advice
attend a seminar,ask the senior instructor in a friendly manner or the senior students for a real demo,say maybe a one on one,you and that person and see what develops.You might be surprised. I met Ting personally,and he is an amazing and humble human being who possesses an ancient Chinese art.
Obviously you did not possess the patience to learn properly.Besides why would any of you even attempt to discredit someones Sifu? You are Martial artists? Who are your instructors? I would not even think of dissing them,or bad mouthing anyone.
This forum is starting to remind me of some of the chat rooms.Too bad,I thought some people had a little more class.

Leung Ting is humble? one sec...lemme find you his description in the WC archive:
Yip Man's second to last private student; trained with Yip Man 2x a week for 9 months. Trained with Leung Sheung 1st. Trademarked "Wing Tsun", which is now the largest martial arts organization in the world. "Grandmaster of Almightyness".

^^--lol humble

I don't agree with any one attacking any certain style. I think, however, that they should make WT it's own MA because it has been trademarked. Even though they're pronounced the same, they're completely different. There's a great practitioner on these forums, and its a female....She trains both arts at the same time and can give you a good description of both and the benefits and downfall of each.

There's a lot of politics when it comes to the two. What was taught to me, the students of Ip Man aren't too fond of LT. I can understand why.

We really need to stay on topic. Try not to pop into every thread and tell us how good your WT is and to research it more. Thread jacking gets you banned here. The mods are really active on these forums.

 

[brocklee]

Ok so I saw this in a movie so tell me if it is totally false....

in WC size does matter in how u attack opponents..

If you are a smaller person and taking on a larger person (say twice ya size) , you try to do a majority of your counter attacking from the side to avoid blows direct on.

If your a large person you don't worry about using counter attacks from the side but focus primarily on a str8 fwd attack.

Total b.s or somewhat true?

I'd say BS. Use what you have at that moment. Any opening is an opportunity for an advance, just remember to make the most efficient decision for that moment. You always want to attack from the side when able to. You don't, however, want to go out of your way to attack from the side if it's easier to break through their center. Attacking from the side is really nice because the kidneys are exposed and they LOVE being palm struck plus look at the angle you're left with on the leg, nice opportunity for a kick.

 

[Si-Je]

in WC size does matter in how u attack opponents..

If you are a smaller person and taking on a larger person (say twice ya size) , you try to do a majority of your counter attacking from the side to avoid blows direct on.

If your a large person you don't worry about using counter attacks from the side but focus primarily on a str8 fwd attack.

Total b.s or somewhat true?

I'd say BS. Use what you have at that moment. Any opening is an opportunity for an advance, just remember to make the most efficient decision for that moment. You always want to attack from the side when able to. You don't, however, want to go out of your way to attack from the side if it's easier to break through their center. Attacking from the side is really nice because the kidneys are exposed and they LOVE being palm struck plus look at the angle you're left with on the leg, nice opportunity for a kick.

I agree with both. kinda. My approach to larger men is totally different than that which my hubbie can do. At 6'4" mostly he can just come straight in using tan sau. Me, not usually on a larger attacker. I use Dai sau alot on hooks and sure can go straight in, but I noticed that the longer I stay in a larger opponent's center line the risker it is for me. So, my ultamite goal is to get to thier side or back. But my hubbie can litterly just plow through most people with little effort using WC/WT. But alot of times he prefers the side approach when it's THERE. When the opponent puts him there, don't force it. Whatever you try to force in WC/WT whether it's an angle, attack, etc. diminishes your best option for netrualiztion. That's why I may come to the side more than a big guy because I'm usually PUT there by my opponent's force, and pressure.

Just use your strengths, and turn your disadvantages into an advantage in the simplest way possible.

ex. most times I can't even reach hubbies head to chain punch, so kick him to bring the face to my level so I don't have to try so hard to punch.

ex. or if he gives me a back fist strike and I tan sau, well his force is too great and starts to turn me, so not to collaspe, I pivot, latch, kick and punch or spade hand to the kidney simply because I'm there. Always start out going forward straight, but adapt the forward angle according to their pressure and inertia. (still going forward) But don't try to get in your head, "I'm going to pivot and get to their side" before you engage. This is big time anticipation and your opponent may do something unexpected.

I totally fight different being small and female than just about everyone else I've seen in application, and execution. The basics and theory are the same. But then most people doing WC are big dudes (that I've come across anyway).

AceHBK, is the movie your talking about "the Prodical Son?" (can't spell, ack.) With the two bothers with different styles of WC/WT? One a big burley guy and the other the slender dude with asmtha?
If so, great movie!