Pros/Cons of the blitz method

[monji112000]

Allot Wing Chun people use this method almost exclusively. The basic premise is you jam the center as fast and hard as possible normally chain punching. Sometimes a small amount of kicking or pak sao is used but the main goal is the center at all costs (mostly chain punching).

Who here has used this in a real scenario? meaning free-fight tournament /NHB tournament/ free-sparring with Boxers/thai ect.. NOT in class or/with fellow Wing Chun students?
What problems or benefits have you found?
I know that this is the main method for most Wing Chun I see on the Internet and visit. With this main goal , it seems that any non forward motion is considered counter productive and “wrong”.

To start off the discussion I will state my findings based on my testings in real life, free tournament, and sparring freely with boxers/thai. (all of them ).


It seems to work sometimes very well for a short period.
The pros I have found: it may surprise, confuse, overwhelm the opponent.
Cons:
very tiring (in a free fight tournament) Since you can't hit full force you are basically not going to knock him out.
damage is very limited to superficial things like bloody nose or black eye. If you are lucky and overwhelm him in a way that he isn't able to recover then you may not have to worry about this. You can just kick him while he is down. (I haven't had this happen yet. Normally they recover fast).
If I am in anyway physically at a disadvantage then it doesn't work. If for example I am farther away. If I am much weaker then the person , if he is faster than me ect..
When It seems that naturally I am a disadvantage as said above, the idea of getting away then protecting seems to work much better. Maybe is sidestep or backwards.
Some people will say that sidestepping or going backwards isn't in the principles/laws ect.. but I disagree.
again :
Who here has used this in a real scenario? meaning free-fight tournament /NHB tournament/ free-sparring with Boxers/thai ect.. NOT in class or/with fellow Wing Chun students?

 

[Andrew Green]

Regardless of what you are doing, pure agression goes a long way in a fight, at least when using it against someone of fairly low skill level, or that is unaccustomed to getting hit in the face.

It can even work pretty well on experienced guys, but that is a rarity.

[dmv]http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/19bqkBznnBFzl5JTE[/dmv]

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

"Blitzing" and/or chain punching is very good to "open the door". I've successfully used it many times in sparring and nhb type sparring situations.

Unfortunately, aftter getting in, more devastating shots should be used, specially if you are at "physical disacvantage". This means going for elbows, knees, controls, takedowns, etc.

In my experience, after a few punches, they cover up. If you don't capitalize on open shots or other opportunities right then, then just hugging you will stop your barrage.

Also, If done with good structure, those can be KO shots... yet if the opponent covers up, it will be unlikely. Like the Belfort and Silva clip, the first punches surprised, then stunned, then flinched and stepped back to escape, then Belfort kept going.

Some people just lower their stance and cover diagonally, then goes for the hug.

Just some scenarios off the top of my head when it hasn't worked.

Again, these stright punches, if they have good structure and body momentum behind them, they're pretty stunning.

Enjoy.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[EternalSpringtime]

I think Wing Chun chain punches to a vital point doesn't require a big amount of power to kill, but what about sparring?. I think that the short range punch is made to deliver maximun power to the opponent. This is called "The One Inch Punch", it's power is tremendous and do alot of harm, Did I miss something?.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Inch power is quite effective in survival/fight type situations, where very effective targets for low power shots are available.

On sparring or MMA type fights, it is great to use to set up the opponent and/or disrupt their structure. Normally this destroys their effective striking ability for a second or two.

Of course, aherence to the rules may lessen the efectiveness of this tactic.

Enjoy.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[monji112000]

Andrew Green ,


good clip (although I was hoping for personal experience) thats just as good.


I remember that fight


Vitor was able to catch Silva (one of my fav MMA fighters). The reality is that you have to time it very well. Also notice the distance that he “blitzed” in at. Also note that he had to constantly keep it going or it would have given Silva time to recover. Also notice that he only punched the head and it wasn't a “chain” punch style it was more powerful but slower.


Timing, distance, constant pressure, following up (it wasn't needed because he fell and Vitor was on top in a second).


Thats why I said that in my experience its not as easy and the opportunity doesn't come as much. If you are one track minded and you force it I don't believe it will work most of the time.


Actually if you train it we (Wing Chun) have some very good defenses for this style of attack.


One option in Wing Chun is Yie Tong Jit Da


“ There's a more advanced technique called Yie Tong Jit Da, which translates as 'two motions in the same direction' (one hand intercepts while the other hits). The footwork is different in this instance because you're stepping to the side with the lead foot followed by the rear foot (maintaining the movement sideways). Turning the shoulder, the guarding hand again intercepts the punch while the lead arm punches the opponent in the face or body. The harder he punches into your intercepting hand, the more force it transfers to your counter-attacking shoulder and fist. “


http://www.wingchunkungfu.cn/mb/index.php?task=view&tid=2032&page=1




profesormental ,


yah inch power or last inch power or short distance power (how ever you call it). Can be very effective. But thats not really related to Chain punching or blitze punching.

 

[Ali Rahim]

Regardless of what you are doing, pure agression goes a long way in a fight, at least when using it against someone of fairly low skill level, or that is unaccustomed to getting hit in the face.

It can even work pretty well on experienced guys, but that is a rarity.

[dmv]http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/19bqkBznnBFzl5JTE[/dmv]

Hello Andrew it seems that you are hiding within your location as any good cow*rd should,, I don’t want to hear nothing else but where you are located You think that I must died saying this while using my IP address linking me to that person!!! To all, trust me he will stay hidden…

I know I’m wrong for being here because of my skin color and religion but I will happily give you a shot at me anytime you want.

Ali.

 

[Ali Rahim]

Ok I may be in my 40’s but I roadwork 4 times a week and I also specialize in submission fighting as well “shoot fighting” black belt in “judo”, wrestling, and I’m well versed in ju-jitsu. So I would really love to roll with you.

No hard feelings dude,, lets just do this man to man… don’t worry you want hurt me… I’m a big boy @ 6’5 / 265lb and can lift well over 400lb I’m real easy to find, how about your location and phone number buddy…

Just in case you forgot your location and phone number only, and I’ll do the rest!!!

Ali.

 

[Ali Rahim]

I know I will lose my reputation marks for standing up for myself, but when a black man stands up; from America standers or stand point, he got to lose sometime!!! I only say this because saying that someone must died is pretty strong words and nothing was said or done about it,, I guess it’s all good which is real sad… All right now,, let me have it…

Ali.

 

[Ali Rahim]

I know I will lose my reputation marks for standing up for myself, but when a black man stands up; from America standers or stand point, he got to lose something!!!
I only say this because saying that someone must died is pretty strong words and nothing was said or done about it,, I guess it’s all good which is real sad… all right now let me have it…

Ali.

 

[monji112000]

Ali whats got your panties all wrinkled? Doesn't look like he did anything wrong. BUt anyway this isn't the place for that. AND ITS oFF TOPIC!

maybe you are pissed at my comments on youtube? I was only jokingly making a honest point about the flexibility of the sword. Grow some thick skin. Well anyway then don't take it out on Andrew Green.

only post with one reply not a bunch of them.

 

[Ali Rahim]

Ali wants got your panties all wrinkled? Doesn't look like he did anything wrong. BUt anyway this isn't the place for that. AND ITS oFF TOPIC!

maybe you are pissed at my comments on youtube? I was only jokingly making a honest point about the flexibility of the sword. Grow some thick skin. Well anyway then don't take it out on Andrew Green.

only post with one reply not a bunch of them.

See what I tell you, it never fells, history will never change… LOL…

Ali.

 

[Andrew Green]

I can just feel the love in here, group hug everyone!

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

My impression is that Ali's reaction was to the ninja penguin Andrew uses as signature.

It displays the browser's computer IP address. Then the "ninja penguin says xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx must die".

It can cause confusion. Clear it up and let's be on our way. Simple misunderstanding of a hi tech joke.

Pretty understandable mistake. Please take that into account.

Juan M. Mercado


P.S. About inch power: it was a comment on another post, yet I do use those principles in chain punching. Specially if there was too much closing of distance and I wanted to open more space for more effective chambering and punching and to avoid more of a grappling situation.

 

[monji112000]

ROLFPIMFP

so thats the big deal...

anyway,

I think I follow you Prof. So you are saying you sometimes use it when you are too close and need to get some space?

I can't say I have tried that so I don't know. For me I find that if I am too close then I would just "get way". Meaning something like gun sao or qwan sao and turn to create a large amount of distance. I don't know the name of the footwork in Chinese. My sifu just says get away (I get too confused with chinese words).

 

[Andrew Green]

Death threat removed

* For the record, it mirrored your IP so it was a general purpose death threat, everyone saw there own IP address.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings!

When someone gets too close while chain punching, forward momentum will keep the opponent off balance... that is good!

Stepping back will create a breathing space with your momentum going back. That is a window for forward momentum of the opponent which in sporting situations leads many times to takedowns.

Forward pressure may cause the stumbling of the opponent and cause him to drop... which is sort of a takedown, in a sense...

Using kwan sao and gum sao while side stepping seems more in the structure of Wing Chun, as the next step would be in the direction of the opponent. This would keep pressure.

Anyhow, this of course depends on the posture of the opponent. I am expressing my experience whenever I chain punch in sparring and NHB type sparring situations.

Some times I started it with a high wedging push (Looks like the double bil jee in sil lum tao). Lots of very cool stuff!! This leaves out a lot of stuff, yet this will yield good discussion.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

 

[EternalSpringtime]

Greetings!

When someone gets too close while chain punching, forward momentum will keep the opponent off balance... that is good!

Stepping back will create a breathing space with your momentum going back. That is a window for forward momentum of the opponent which in sporting situations leads many times to takedowns.

Forward pressure may cause the stumbling of the opponent and cause him to drop... which is sort of a takedown, in a sense...

Using kwan sao and gum sao while side stepping seems more in the structure of Wing Chun, as the next step would be in the direction of the opponent. This would keep pressure.

Anyhow, this of course depends on the posture of the opponent. I am expressing my experience whenever I chain punch in sparring and NHB type sparring situations.

Some times I started it with a high wedging push (Looks like the double bil jee in sil lum tao). Lots of very cool stuff!! This leaves out a lot of stuff, yet this will yield good discussion.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

So mentioning the NHB type sparring. Where do you usually punch the opponent with chain punches?. Of course not to the neck I beleive, but still you can knock ypur opponent down. so how you do it?.

 

[monji112000]

I don't believe that punching to any place but the head in a chain punch can be 100% effective. IF, he is already moving backwards .. then it could be just fine to punch the body.

I have tried only punching the body and in both times it was very unsuccessfully. Although in class it seemed to be perfectly viable. I believe this was because people were relaxing more and giving some in class. Outside of class people will be willing to take more.

The head controls your center of gravity, so if you are trying to knock someone off balance, the head should be the prime target. But then again it becomes very clear to your opponent that this is your target. So you have to use strategy.

So if I follow you profesormental, you believe that constant pressure and forward motion are the "key" fundamentals of Wing Chun? I have heard this allot from people.


So stepping backwards with a Gun sao, would be counter productive according to this view?


Just looking for a friendly discussion.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Remember that in NHB type sparring, the opponent is quite skilled and stepping back may open for a shoot and/or grappling attempt, since you chain punched high.

If punching to the head area, pressure forward and up will upset balance by much... this will make the opponent fall back or rotate to the side to avoid falling and then keep rotating towards you while crouched... which can turn into a grappling attemt.

If it is foreseen, then it can be managed to be advantageous, and even take the back.

If you push down with the low gum sao, you may push the opponent to fall on the floor, since the 2 points of balance (the feet) are way back compared to the body (he's bent over).

If you hit the low gum sao on the shoulder and he falls (he's bent over), you can get side control. Just one of many things to do.

If you go with a gum sao and disengage you might loose advantage, yet if you want a break, then it is good.

Depends on your strategy. Stick and move, stike and shoot, strike and sprawl, etc.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado