I NEVER stated how a 6th dan "should" perform. I was stating of how the 6th dans in the AK system move. Big difference. And on YOUR same point, how can anybody with 10 years experience claim 6th dan? Do the math. What rank do think this guy was when he had five years in? Definately way above brown. But your the expert here:rofl:
K
Karazenpo
Guest
bayonet said:
Hello bayonet, I know the above post is directed to Dave but I just have to pick up on something that is my pet peeve that I've expressed myself on several times here. Here is an excerpt from your post: "I guess we in the American Kenpo world have a different take on what a 6th dan means". You can't go there, sir, remember what I've been saying on 'The glass house syndrome' , throwing stones and checking what's going on in your own back yard before criticizing someone else. "I guess we in American Kenpo", well, American Kenpo people you are familiar with are having a bit of a heated debate on Kenponet right now about other American Kenpo people, to paraphrase, disgracing their art with this inflated rank thing. I can also tell you that it was brought to my attention by a member of this board in person at my dojo of an American Kenpo master in our area who was just promoted to 8th dan and do you know how? His students told him he should be an 8th dan (I only knew him as a 5th, don't know if he 'legit' made 6th and 7th) so he said more or less, okay, and promoted himself to 8th, yes, EPAK, self promoted 8th degree black belt! If you need further confirmation contact American Kenpo's Tom Chase of this forum and he will back me up on this. Tom is one of the legitimate hard workers in his art who recognizes that these questionable situations are in every system and style and no one or no system is immune. The longer you stay in your art the more you will see this and come to understand that disgression is the better part of valor in these situations. I have my own personal opinions but I try to keep them to myself the best I can for these flame wars have no end! You have no personal knowledge of Dave and neither do I and talking down to him like that, telling him he will be truly humbled is kind of disrespectful, there are more respectful ways to get your point across in recognition of the abilities of your instructor and your seniors than going about it in that way. You used the word 'humbling' so you must realize that is an important attribute in the martial arts and not just a word to be used when it fits your point of view. Just give it some thought, remember, this is supposed to be 'friendly discussion'. Sincerely, Prof. Joe
Just be cause you got the snot knocked outta ya does not mean that Geary is not as much as a fighter as those kicked your ***. :uhyeah:bayonet said:
Yeah and if a man who has trained with Mr. Tatum for twenty years knocked the snot outta me in technique line so be it. Hang around the arts long enough and it's bound to happen. As far as fighting ability, why not award Mike Tyson and 6th dan. His fighting ability speaks for itself. So let's award everyone with a natural fighting ability BB's.akja said:
M
monkey-a-go-go
Guest
Is Mr. Geary's website over the top? LoL. I think so. Maybe his wife always wanted to be an interior decorator and he promised when he opened his school she could design it. Maybe he came from meager beginnings and he went to an Anthony Robbins Success seminar and has big dreams LOL. I have no idea. I have also never seen him move, drill, or run forms. And neither have you bayonet. You and I have no idea. Does it seem odd? Well, He was checked out by Gascon and Angel. They have been around a lot longer than you and I right? Has any disgruntled longtime students come to post warnings? No. Has a student satisfied with what he is getting? Yep. So let Gearys organizations handle it.
You stated "We in American Kenpo" and dropped some big names. Are you representing them? Would they be comfortable about that? I can think of three names off the top of my head, AK practioners, whose actions are degrading your fine art. People who are hurting those like yourself who earn their rank the hard way. This could use your scrutiny. And maybe one day you might instruct yourself and turn out some fine students who will uphold the integrity of the arts. Clean up your yard and let Geary's people clean up theirs. Anyhow, Anyone watching the Ken Burns PBS Documentary "Unforgivable Blackness" about Jack Johnson? Good stuff.
You stated "We in American Kenpo" and dropped some big names. Are you representing them? Would they be comfortable about that? I can think of three names off the top of my head, AK practioners, whose actions are degrading your fine art. People who are hurting those like yourself who earn their rank the hard way. This could use your scrutiny. And maybe one day you might instruct yourself and turn out some fine students who will uphold the integrity of the arts. Clean up your yard and let Geary's people clean up theirs. Anyhow, Anyone watching the Ken Burns PBS Documentary "Unforgivable Blackness" about Jack Johnson? Good stuff.
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
We can only hope it was his wife or girlfriend (I didn't see anywhere on his site that he was married, attached, or had children), otherwise, it looks a little lite in the loafers LOL.monkey-a-go-go said:
DarK LorD
Dark Kenpo Lord
Brown Belt
George Elmer promoted himself to 10th for the same reason. Ludicrous and shame I'm not there.Karazenpo said:
DarK LorD
M
monkey-a-go-go
Guest
Not that there's anything wrong with that. LOL.
M
monkey-a-go-go
Guest
Hey who ever promoted the first ten year old black belt- Go get that guy! lol
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Yeah, it's in all styles, all systems and no matter how much we huff and puff, it's not going to go away, so you learn to live with it. In one of Mr. Parker's books, the Infinite Insights into Kenpo series, maybe it's volume 5, I'm not sure, but the poem is called "The Man in the Glass", fitting for this discussion, isn't it? from an unknown author I think but that poem says it all.
Well Monkey -a-go-go,You have a point.I have never seen Geary move so I won't speak on that anymore. I mean as a fellow vet I could sit at the American Legion and talk story with him.monkey-a-go-go said:
2. I did drop some big names. The reason being is because all the names I have dropped I have personally witnessed these Kenpoist move. How am I representing them? By respecting the way a 6th dan can move and flow.
3. Would Shihan Geary be comfortable with your interior decor comments? LOL!!! Who knows if he has a wife. In this day and age alot of men are into interior design.
Anywho, did anyone catch the Van Halen tour this past year?
The Kai
Master of Arts
Actually, while I'm the first guy to bust any ones chops lets leave this kind of talk in the playground where it belongs. We are after all making assumptions about his martial arts experience based on what we see on a website. Please don't start spurious rumorsmonkey-a-go-go said:
Todd
The Kai
Master of Arts
Actually Ive seem George Elmer move and he is good
I've also met Mr Angel>>
Believe Me I am Jeosous when I worked hard, sweat and blead to ear my rank and them someone one buys thiers and claims "Ha<Ha look how fast I got here!"
If you want to pop me in the nose look at the website the address is listed
Granted I based alot of stuff of off the website, but nothing struck a chord of a 6th degree
Todd
I've also met Mr Angel>>
Believe Me I am Jeosous when I worked hard, sweat and blead to ear my rank and them someone one buys thiers and claims "Ha<Ha look how fast I got here!"
If you want to pop me in the nose look at the website the address is listed
Granted I based alot of stuff of off the website, but nothing struck a chord of a 6th degree
Todd
bayonet said:
I don't doubt your instructors or the knowledge that they are passing on to you BUT you are confusing that little bit of knowledge with being "seasoned attributes" that you "assume" you have. If you did, you'd be moving up faster than you are.
Don't misunderstand me, a few years of solid training does not equal to being a seasoned martial artist. You're calling out a high ranking blackbelt based TOTALLY on his website. THINK!!
Many people in the JKD world don't like who I associate with. One of them is rich and they don't like his buisness practices and they talk all the talk. But then when I call them on it, they remember he can really fight too! And then they have to check themselves. Many martial artists are like that.
Nearly 30 years ago I was trained by Kajukenbos "renegade instructor" of that time. Many seniors tried to put him down and us along with him. They said we lied and cheated. They said how can they be purple and blue belts. They're liars, they should be banned from competing. All the Kaju fighters claimed same school so we didn't have to fight until the finals but ALL the others schools, including Kenpo had to fight us and lose.
Our instructor was a brown belt and could not promote us. I started training in 1973 and in 1978 (although my 3rd school) I was still a purple belt. We were all under-ranked but we were true! All the way up to the '90's I've always put a white belt on in every school I've been in until my system "started to arrive."
I've seen to much and I'm way to smart to know that I can't make a true judgement based on viewing a website like you tried and you even said if your in the area you'll "step in and match technique with them." Not good.
You can judge me all you want BUT you better not make it public or it will be coming back on ya and that's how you need to learn to treat others out there.
I'm not trying to ride you here but it wouldn't hurt if you filled out your profile (so you can be judged as well) so we new who we are talking to and maybe give us an idea of who you are.
Danjo
Master Black Belt
Flamboyance certainly is not an indicator of fighting ability. According to many in the 60's and 70's John Keehan (the notorious Count Dante) was actually a pretty solid fighter and 5th degree black belt under Robert Trias. Nobody was more flamboyant however. Peter Urban also had a lot of flair, but was considered legit. Who was this Kajukenbo renegade?
The Kai
Master of Arts
Count Dante was'nt really flamboyant, I think he was more likely to be called outrageous. He advocated training is sweats with tennis shoes on. street cloths. He stated in a magazine that a boxer was better trained to win a street fight. He felt the "ritual of Kata" over took the conditioning aspects of the arts. For a Non Chinese to make these sytaemets in the early 70's - outrageous.
One of Count dante's "things" was to go into a bar on the south side of chicago and basically pick a fight - Scandeleous.
My teacher's teacher met Count Dante, basically summed it up "A cracked egg, but mastered the physicl art"
Todd
One of Count dante's "things" was to go into a bar on the south side of chicago and basically pick a fight - Scandeleous.
My teacher's teacher met Count Dante, basically summed it up "A cracked egg, but mastered the physicl art"
Todd
K
Karazenpo
Guest
akja said:
Jim (akja), in my humble opinion, you're a very wise man and a lot can be learned from reading your posts. You are not just a man of words, it's easy to to get the feeling that you have been there and done that and you certainly have my respect. Take care & God bless, my brother, "Joe"
Joe,Karazenpo said:
I very humbly appreciate your kind words. You almost seem to know me I thats part of the reason why I hold you and your opinions is very high regards. The other reasons you already know. you "live them" everyday.
Respectfully, Your brother Jim :asian:
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Danjo said:I've seen demos by 5th 6th and 7th degrees. To be honest, if they were all mixed up and weren't wearing their belts, I would have been hard pressed to tell the difference.
Prof Joe, I thought it took Lewis 9 months to get to Shodan. (Like that makes a lot of difference!)
You're right Danjo, I had heard the 9 month time period for years and then I read it was 7 months and that number just stuck in my mind. So, I'm not sure, so I'll leave myself open to stand corrected. I'll say one thing in his behalf though, way back in 1987 Gm. Ray Szuch, the founder of the U.S. Police Defensive Tactics Association, set up a meeting with Mr. Lewis and myself in Greenfield, Ma., I was the Asst. National Director at the time. Gm. Szuch wanted Mr. Lewis to be a part of our association but Joe Lewis stated something to the affect of he doesn't get involved in anything without having a sit down and looking the person in the eye. Back then, I was excited about the meet but also apprehensive because of the stories about Joe Lewis' 'alledged', let's say 'interaction' with people, lol. Let me say this, Kathy and I doubled that night with Joe and his beautiful wife Kim. We had a great time, they were fun to be with, I heard some history first hand that I couldn't believe I was privy too!
I remember going to the men's room in this club we were at and it just hit me. I'm talking with Joe Lewis (understand, he was one of my idols when I started in kenpo and made my black belt), it was like sureal, lol, hey, yeah, a little star struck but put it in perspective, this guy worked out and trained with Bruce Lee, so cut me some slack,lol. In 1987, I still had the 'little boy' in me, probably still do, I think, I hope! When we were leaving I remember saying to him that to be honest, we were a lttle nervous about meeting him not knowing if he would like us. Joe looked at me and said that he and Kim were nervous about meeting us, hoping we'd like them! Okay, is that humbling or what? So, from my encounter, a great martial artsit and helluva nice guy! Yes, Joe Lewis was an intimidator in the ring and some of it carried over outside the ring according to some but it must have worked for him because he was undisputedly one of the greatest fighters of all time, no matter how long it took him to shodan, agreed?, lol, I'm sure. Great memories...............
