Chow interview Synopsis

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
In the latest issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an interesting “last interview” with Kwai Sun “Thunderbolt” Chow. Read in its entirety, it says much about Professor Chow at the time of the interview in 1986. A plain and simple man, he often spoke directly of his feelings of the moment. He often played “mind games” and even would say the opposite of what he actually meant sometimes only to correct you later in the conversation, after you assumed he meant what he said previously.

He was small in stature but a giant of a man with a rich personal history who never failed to have an opinion on a subject, and you could make of it what you will, because if you didnÂ’t like it, he could whip your a$$. Some of the things said were controversial, but the interviewer, Jim Perkins, makes note of this wry sense of humor and emotional dichotomy that keeps you off balance, and allows you should take the interview, and Chow at face value.

Some of the things covered:

When asked how he received the title “Professor,” he essentially said he gave the title to himself, and the interviewer could do the same. He than alluded to that if you did he and Emperado would come to see you to determine if you could back the title up. I like that. I wish we could do that today.

When asked how he became a 15th degree, Chow asked what the highest rank was. When the interviewer said 10th, Chow allowed that is why he is 15th. “If everyone else is 10th, than the Professor is 15th.”

When asked about Mitose, Chow displayed pictures of very large Japanese men, Chow essentially says, these huge men are Mitose “bodyguards.” He added that he knocked them both out. When asked if he got his black belt from Mitose, Chow said his father taught him not Mitose, and that Mitose was just a “con man.” In describing his relationship with Mitose, he said what I had always been told by Ed Parker Sr., that they collaborated with each other. And he added, Mitose used him to make himself famous by setting up demos where Chow performed all of the physical stuff, and Mitose “talk,” while Chow would “show.” He also spoke of how Mitose had to have bodyguards because “a lot of people wanted to beat him up”, and he was afraid.

On Ed Parker, Chow said, “Parker big shot on the mainland, right?” When the interviewer agreed Chow (upset) said, “Ed Parker think he the King of Kenpo, but he wrong! There is no King of Kenpo. There is only the Professor.” When the interviewer pointed out Parker was one of his Black Belts, Chow said, “No he’s not! He tell people that to make himself look big. Everyone says they Black Belt under the Professor just to make money.” When the interviewer asked if Parker trained under him, Chow said, “He trained under me, but he only make it to purple belt. He work more with Emperado than me. Go talk to him.” (Emperado)

When asked who would take over when he retired, Chow said, “There is only one man who know all of Kara-Ho System: Jacob.” And pointed to one of his black belts, and added, “He been my student since 5 years old.”

When asked who one should go see on the mainland to learn true Kara-Ho, Chow said, “You go see Nick Cerio.”

The short interview is a fascinating one and I urge everyone to get a copy and read it for themselves. Everyone is fairly polarized already on most of the subjects in the interview, but its interesting reading and you can make of it what you will. AFTER reading the interview in its entirety, IÂ’m sure it will make for some spirited discussions on this thread. Enjoy.
 

TChase

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
143
Reaction score
7
Location
Rhode Island
This is a little off the subject but I have Ed Parker on video talking about his fallout with Chow. Basically what he said was he and Chow had planned to come to the mainland together to open a Kenpo school after he finished college. When the time came Chow changed his mind. He wanted to stay on the island and told Parker to go on his own. Later on when Chow found out Parker was getting famous and making good money he told Parker that he owed him and should give him money. Parker told him that he paid for his lessons and even gave him money out of his own pocket many times to help him out. He came here alone and built himself up from nothing and he wasn't going to give Chow anything.

That of course is only one side of the story but I tend to believe it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
TChase said:
This is a little off the subject but I have Ed Parker on video talking about his fallout with Chow. Basically what he said was he and Chow had planned to come to the mainland together to open a Kenpo school after he finished college. When the time came Chow changed his mind. He wanted to stay on the island and told Parker to go on his own. Later on when Chow found out Parker was getting famous and making good money he told Parker that he owed him and should give him money. Parker told him that he paid for his lessons and even gave him money out of his own pocket many times to help him out. He came here alone and built himself up from nothing and he wasn't going to give Chow anything.

That of course is only one side of the story but I tend to believe it.
It is also exactly what Mr. Parker told me "back in the day." Apparently it did foster some ill feelings on Chow's part, but as Parker stated, "I definetly kept my end of the deal." Even so, Par \ker always gave Chow the credit for giving him his start, but more importantly, for the wholly creative idea of approaching the martial arts from a pure modern self defense perspective. Something completely unheard of the times.
 

kenmpoka

Blue Belt
Joined
May 23, 2002
Messages
218
Reaction score
1
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Doc said:
In the latest issue of Black Belt Magazine, there is an interesting “last interview” with Kwai Sun “Thunderbolt” Chow. Read in its entirety, it says much about Professor Chow at the time of the interview in 1986. A plain and simple man, he often spoke directly of his feelings of the moment. He often played “mind games” and even would say the opposite of what he actually meant sometimes only to correct you later in the conversation, after you assumed he meant what he said previously.

He was small in stature but a giant of a man with a rich personal history who never failed to have an opinion on a subject, and you could make of it what you will, because if you didnÂ’t like it, he could whip your a$$. Some of the things said were controversial, but the interviewer, Jim Perkins, makes note of this wry sense of humor and emotional dichotomy that keeps you off balance, and allows you should take the interview, and Chow at face value.

Some of the things covered:

When asked how he received the title “Professor,” he essentially said he gave the title to himself, and the interviewer could do the same. He than alluded to that if you did he and Emperado would come to see you to determine if you could back the title up. I like that. I wish we could do that today.

When asked how he became a 15th degree, Chow asked what the highest rank was. When the interviewer said 10th, Chow allowed that is why he is 15th. “If everyone else is 10th, than the Professor is 15th.”

When asked about Mitose, Chow displayed pictures of very large Japanese men, Chow essentially says, these huge men are Mitose “bodyguards.” He added that he knocked them both out. When asked if he got his black belt from Mitose, Chow said his father taught him not Mitose, and that Mitose was just a “con man.” In describing his relationship with Mitose, he said what I had always been told by Ed Parker Sr., that they collaborated with each other. And he added, Mitose used him to make himself famous by setting up demos where Chow performed all of the physical stuff, and Mitose “talk,” while Chow would “show.” He also spoke of how Mitose had to have bodyguards because “a lot of people wanted to beat him up”, and he was afraid.

On Ed Parker, Chow said, “Parker big shot on the mainland, right?” When the interviewer agreed Chow (upset) said, “Ed Parker think he the King of Kenpo, but he wrong! There is no King of Kenpo. There is only the Professor.” When the interviewer pointed out Parker was one of his Black Belts, Chow said, “No he’s not! He tell people that to make himself look big. Everyone says they Black Belt under the Professor just to make money.” When the interviewer asked if Parker trained under him, Chow said, “He trained under me, but he only make it to purple belt. He work more with Emperado than me. Go talk to him.” (Emperado)

When asked who would take over when he retired, Chow said, “There is only one man who know all of Kara-Ho System: Jacob.” And pointed to one of his black belts, and added, “He been my student since 5 years old.”

When asked who one should go see on the mainland to learn true Kara-Ho, Chow said, “You go see Nick Cerio.”

The short interview is a fascinating one and I urge everyone to get a copy and read it for themselves. Everyone is fairly polarized already on most of the subjects in the interview, but its interesting reading and you can make of it what you will. AFTER reading the interview in its entirety, IÂ’m sure it will make for some spirited discussions on this thread. Enjoy.

Hello Dr. Chapel,

Thank you for this complete synopsis. I saw the article a few days ago and it got me thinking a bit.
I will not discuss the Mitose/ Chow relationship nor the knowledge that these men did or did not possess, although I am skeptical to completely agree with Mr.Chow on this subject. I am also very doubtful of his father being a Master martial artist. Mainly for the reason that non of the other brothers (Chow) ever accquired any knowledge nor ever had mentioned their Father as the source.
By the way, my Father passed away last year, and before his untimely death, he promoted me to the mastership of all that I have studied as well. Of course this cannot be verified since he is dead.

I also found it very interesting that Mr. Chow acknowledged Mr. Cerio as his BB and the knowledge bearer of Kara-ho on the mainland, and that there was no mention of Mr.Bill Chun Sr., or Mr. Sam Kuoha.

No disrespect intended to anyone or any group......

How are you doing Sir? It's been a while since we exchanged e-mails.

Salute,
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
kenmpoka said:
Hello Dr. Chapel,

Thank you for this complete synopsis. I saw the article a few days ago and it got me thinking a bit.
I will not discuss the Mitose/ Chow relationship nor the knowledge that these men did or did not possess, although I am skeptical to completely agree with Mr.Chow on this subject. I am also very doubtful of his father being a Master martial artist. Mainly for the reason that non of the other brothers (Chow) ever accquired any knowledge nor ever had mentioned their Father as the source.
By the way, my Father passed away last year, and before his untimely death, he promoted me to the mastership of all that I have studied as well. Of course this cannot be verified since he is dead.

I also found it very interesting that Mr. Chow acknowledged Mr. Cerio as his BB and the knowledge bearer of Kara-ho on the mainland, and that there was no mention of Mr.Bill Chun Sr., or Mr. Sam Kuoha.

No dispespect intended to anyone or any group......

How are you doing Sir? It's been a while since we exchanged e-mails.

Salute,
Hey he is still alive! How are you sir, I'm just working and teachng as usual. Was just thinking about you not too long ago, and wondering where you were. Good to hear from you.
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
33
From what I've heard William K.S. Chow had a revolving shi* list. Basically anybody that trained with him was on the list at one time or another. While Parker, Castro etc might not have been giving money to Chow they spread the word on him-possibly making him one of the most famous hawaiin martial artists.


Chow promoting himself to 15th degree definatly took stones. However, as he said you to can promote yourself-but I come and visit!!

Not as knock on Nick Cerio-but the idea that he was the leading Kara Ho guy on the mainland was a surprise!
 

Thunderbolt

Orange Belt
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
82
Reaction score
10
Location
boston, MA
after reading this article in the latest issue of BB magazine, I expect everything else BUT the only 2 things got my attentions are

1-"Jacob" person for karaho leadership
2-Nick Cerios for learning karaho.

I am still suprised.! This is definitely getting more interesting.
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
33
Given Chow's tempermental nature, would he have pointed out different people on a differnet week>?
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
The Kai said:
Given Chow's tempermental nature, would he have pointed out different people on a differnet week>?
That's a reasonable assumption based on Mr. Chow's volatile nature later in his life. He carried an unhealthy dose of bitterness into his years as, it appeared to him, everyone else was having some measure of success at his exspense. Some of the things he would say he would retract two sentences later, while in others he was always be firm and consistent in his convictions.

His stand on Mitose for example, never changed and I believe was the seed and the beginning of his mistrust of students and associates. At one point Mr. Parker speculated this was the reason he thought Chow decided not to come to the mainland as his business partner. Chow had been "burned" with Mitose, and he knew he wasn't very educated, out of his element and at the mercy of others for support. The idea made him very uncomfortable.

Some took his stance on his self awarded 15th degree serious and questioned his mental state. Ed Parker said, Chow was just stating how he felt about all the others claiming 10th. It was obvious Chow felt if they were 10th, well he had to be a 15th because he didn't think they were any good.

Still he was also very consistent with how he felt about Sijo Emperado, and never waivered in his support of him as far as I know.

He did establish short term relationships with some on the mainland in an effort to duplicate some of his students successes, but never reached the noteriety of his more well known associates.

His "sucessors" changed often and could arguably be stated to be almost anyone, depending upon who you talked to and when. The interview seems to point at Cerio, but Cerio did nothing like Chow opting instead for his own style. Chow even changed the name of his style several times so who knows which version he was speaking of. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

later on, and this is just my opinion, Chow was trying to move more like his famous student Ed Parker, and was clearly different from what he was doing earlier. Chow's approach and technique was always very direct and more "Japanese-like" rigid, and very effective with few moves. near the end, the flashy uniform with decorations was just a last attempt to gain acceptance and find his place in the Kenpo world he virtually created, that was moving on without him.

There will always be much controversy surrounding this man and his many "students" and associates, however the one thing about him that never changed from era-to-era from person-to-person by all accounts is - this man was one tough sob, and one hell of a fighter.

William Kwai Sun Chow, aka "Thunderbolt." R.I.P.
 

Matt

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
511
Reaction score
19
Location
Cape Cod
Doc said:
When asked who one should go see on the mainland to learn true Kara-Ho, Chow said, “You go see Nick Cerio.”

That wouldn't surprise me from a 1976 article, but 1986, it does.

The short interview is a fascinating one and I urge everyone to get a copy and read it for themselves. Everyone is fairly polarized already on most of the subjects in the interview, but its interesting reading and you can make of it what you will. AFTER reading the interview in its entirety, IÂ’m sure it will make for some spirited discussions on this thread. Enjoy.

I ran right out to my local Borders, but they had the june 2005 issue with no sign of the article. What's the cover date on the one with the interview?

Thanks,

Matt
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
Matt said:
That wouldn't surprise me from a 1976 article, but 1986, it does.



I ran right out to my local Borders, but they had the june 2005 issue with no sign of the article. What's the cover date on the one with the interview?

Thanks,

Matt
JULY 2005. I have a lifetime subscription from the original owners, and most subscribers get theirs a bit earlier than the news stands.
 

Danjo

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
1,378
Reaction score
60
Location
Fullerton, CA
Doc said:
later on, and this is just my opinion, Chow was trying to move more like his famous student Ed Parker, and was clearly different from what he was doing earlier. Chow's approach and technique was always very direct and more "Japanese-like" rigid, and very effective with few moves. near the end, the flashy uniform with decorations was just a last attempt to gain acceptance and find his place in the Kenpo world he virtually created, that was moving on without him.
Doc,

was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
Casey_Sutherland said:
A lifetime subscription. That is amazing.
Not really when you've been around as long as I have. I know the original owners of the magazine and Martial Arts Supply. Originally they were one company run by the Uyehara Brothers located on west Washigton Blvd in Los Angeles. When they began to grow the brothers split the business and even tried to get Ed Parker involved in the magazine as a business partner. Parker turned them down at the time, but a few of the guys received lifetime subscriptions for helping them out with moving and other things. In fact I still have my copy of issue number one featuring, "The Black Belt Mormon - Ed Parker."
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
Danjo said:
Doc,

was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?

My opinion:

What is in Mitose's Book(s) are awful representations of the available arts of Hawaii or Japan. Some look at these books and "see" something I'm missing. They are poorly posed copies of someone else's books, but that debate will go on.

Chow was a hard hitting "quick striker" who could end a fight with one punch. He also could and would grapple with the best of them. He would even NOT hit a person in favor of a takedown so he could practice his ground technique. He was cocky and could back every bit of it up. His nickname "Thunderbolt" was given to him by his friends and foes alike because of this "quick one strike" game over ability. Parker said Chow had the ability to multiple strike but Chow's attitude was ""Why?"

When Chow would demo he would knock guys out with one strike, or he would grapple them. He was effective, but not very exciting. Later when students like Sijo Emperado, Ed Parker Sr., and even Bill Chun Sr. were obtaining success by the more impressive"multiple quick strike" techniques, Chow actually began to emulate their movements because it was good showmanship.

Parker always said, "Showmanship has to be a part of demos to sell the art." and learned the lesson quickly on the mainland. In his first book, "Kenpo Karate" he was criticized by Chow for the "length" of the techniques, as a "Show off." even though the techniques were only four or five moves long. Than when Parker went to the Chinese, a whole new world opened up, and he completely changed is philosophical methodology.

Kwai Sun Chow ultimately learned the lesson himself and adopted flashy uniforms and huge wide gold belts and gaudy piping and embroidery you'd see in a Vegas stage act. His demos changed to, well, "Parker like movements" where he seemed lost when trying to end the technique, like he was in uncharted territory. His "real" confrontations never lasted that long.
 

Casey_Sutherland

Orange Belt
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
78
Reaction score
2
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Doc said:
Not really when you've been around as long as I have. I know the original owners of the magazine and Martial Arts Supply. Originally they were one company run by the Uyehara Brothers located on west Washigton Blvd in Los Angeles. When they began to grow the brothers split the business and even tried to get Ed Parker involved in the magazine as a business partner. Parker turned them down at the time, but a few of the guys received lifetime subscriptions for helping them out with moving and other things. In fact I still have my copy of issue number one featuring, "The Black Belt Mormon - Ed Parker."
I remember hearing a snippit of that story about the magazine before. I think it is still pretty amazing that someone could have a lifetime subscription to something like that. Issue number 1 would definatly be an amazing collectors item.
 
OP
Doc

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
Casey_Sutherland said:
I remember hearing a snippit of that story about the magazine before. I think it is still pretty amazing that someone could have a lifetime subscription to something like that. Issue number 1 would definatly be an amazing collectors item.
Never really thought about it. I guess you're right. Maybe I should go look to make sure I still have that issue. I'm sure I do along with a ton of the other issues.
 

Danjo

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
1,378
Reaction score
60
Location
Fullerton, CA
Doc said:
My opinion:

What is in Mitose's Book(s) are awful representations of the available arts of Hawaii or Japan. Some look at these books and "see" something I'm missing. They are poorly posed copies of someone else's books, but that debate will go on.

Chow was a hard hitting "quick striker" who could end a fight with one punch. He also could and would grapple with the best of them. He would even NOT hit a person in favor of a takedown so he could practice his ground technique. He was cocky and could back every bit of it up. His nickname "Thunderbolt" was given to him by his friends and foes alike because of this "quick one strike" game over ability. Parker said Chow had the ability to multiple strike but Chow's attitude was ""Why?"

When Chow would demo he would knock guys out with one strike, or he would grapple them. He was effective, but not very exciting. Later when students like Sijo Emperado, Ed Parker Sr., and even Bill Chun Sr. were obtaining success by the more impressive"multiple quick strike" techniques, Chow actually began to emulate their movements because it was good showmanship.

Parker always said, "Showmanship has to be a part of demos to sell the art." and learned the lesson quickly on the mainland. In his first book, "Kenpo Karate" he was criticized by Chow for the "length" of the techniques, as a "Show off." even though the techniques were only four or five moves long. Than when Parker went to the Chinese, a whole new world opened up, and he completely changed is philosophical methodology.

Kwai Sun Chow ultimately learned the lesson himself and adopted flashy uniforms and huge wide gold belts and gaudy piping and embroidery you'd see in a Vegas stage act. His demos changed to, well, "Parker like movements" where he seemed lost when trying to end the technique, like he was in uncharted territory. His "real" confrontations never lasted that long.
Doc,
thank you. This clears up a lot of things for me that I have heard and read. Thanks again.
 

JakeG

White Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Doc,

was the stuff we see in "What is Self Defense? Kenpo JiuJitsu" closer to what Chow trained in for the most part? I remember in the Emperado interview him saying that Chow trained for the one-punch kills etc. Who introduced the rapid-fire punching that you see in Chun's Hansuki etc?


How's it going. I'm a new member here. I know this is an old thread, but I just read this post. The Chun Hansuki/Honsuki has rapid fire punching? Is this Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo's Bill Chun you are speaking of? I know this form and this is not a true observation unless somebody has changed it since I learned it in in the early 90's. Chun's Kempo was never about rapid fire hits. Please elaborate thankyou!

Jacob
 

Danjo

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
1,378
Reaction score
60
Location
Fullerton, CA
How's it going. I'm a new member here. I know this is an old thread, but I just read this post. The Chun Hansuki/Honsuki has rapid fire punching? Is this Go Shin Jitsu-Kai Chinese Kempo's Bill Chun you are speaking of? I know this form and this is not a true observation unless somebody has changed it since I learned it in in the early 90's. Chun's Kempo was never about rapid fire hits. Please elaborate thankyou!

Jacob

I've heard this story before about Cerio's Hansuki being different than Chun's. I'd love too see footage of the two versions for comparison.
 

Latest Discussions

Top