Intent Yi (意)

[Marsha Larts]

I’m just not patient with nonsense. The tenets I espouse are hard work and legitimacy. I get that you are upset by my tone and posts, sorry for that. My intent is not to insult you.

There you go again with the assumptions

 

[windwalker099107]

Bottom line, he could not do it against a resisting opponent, not even a little bit.

Interesting take — not one I would share.

He has done it with others. The dynamic in these discussions always seems to come back to: unless something is “proven” to the satisfaction of the skeptic, it’s dismissed as unreal. Meanwhile, those who have felt it often go on to train with the same teachers, because the experience speaks for itself.

Had the video looked any different, I suspect the same questioning would remain.
some of his own writing on Yi : 因敵變化視神奇 — responding to the opponent’s changes appears miraculous.




John is a good guy with skill.


I believe part of his background was in Wing Chun, although it’s been a long time since we last corresponded. If anyone truly wants to understand his perspective, the best way is to reach out to him directly. Through his blogg.

 

[Xue Sheng101]

Imperial Yang Taijiquan...really!?
Below quote is from here

As early as 1984 when when foreigners who lived and studied Taijiquan in China, there was no Imperial style around.

Xu Yu-Sheng, was the authority of all branches of taiji in Beijing because he had hired the top family member from each taiji branch to teach at his government sanctioned institute. Imperial style was not represented because it did not exist.

It was not until an increased number of westerners coming to Beijing in the 1990s for Taiji and martial arts training that the name Imperial style began to emerge. That group had a terrible name among the true lineages....and all students of the lineage sects were told to not be friends with any of those people. People who studied Xingyi and Chen/Yang taiji with teachers from unknown sources saw that they had a new opportunity to teach westerners. It is sad that westerners fall prey to such.

Fu Zhong-Wen mentioned the Imperial people sometimes.....always shaking his head. He said that Yang Lu-Chan had taught at the Palace, but it was not like people think. He taught some guards of various ranks and some eunuchs who attended to the court, but he did not teach the elite guards or court officials as many stories tell. Taiji or Yang family boxing was nearly unknown back then....and as Fu said....Yang only taught there because a student of his pulled strings so he could teach there and use this as a method of advertising his family art..... basically...if the Palace asked Master Yang to teach there...then his art is superior....and students in China would flock to study this new boxing art.

Top

 

[Wing Woo Gar42]

Interesting take — not one I would share.

He has done it with others. The dynamic in these discussions always seems to come back to: unless something is “proven” to the satisfaction of the skeptic, it’s dismissed as unreal. Meanwhile, those who have felt it often go on to train with the same teachers, because the experience speaks for itself.

Had the video looked any different, I suspect the same questioning would remain.
some of his own writing on Yi : 因敵變化視神奇 — responding to the opponent’s changes appears miraculous.




John is a good guy with skill.


I believe part of his background was in Wing Chun, although it’s been a long time since we last corresponded. If anyone truly wants to understand his perspective, the best way is to reach out to him directly. Through his blogg.

I don’t doubt they have skill. The fact is he could not do it to @marvin8. After that is just a bunch of excuses for why not. Again, I don’t mean to insult anyone, but first the videos were presented as evidence of these people being able to do this for real. Then, when an actual member of this forum presents a video as evidence that they cannot do it, then video doesnt count as evidence for XYZ reasons.

 

[Wing Woo Gar42]

There you go again with the assumptions

There you go again with the projecting.

 

[marvin8]

I don’t doubt they have skill. The fact is he could not do it to @marvin8. After that is just a bunch of excuses for why not. Again, I don’t mean to insult anyone, but first the videos were presented as evidence of these people being able to do this for real. Then, when an actual member of this forum presents a video as evidence that they cannot do it, then video doesnt count as evidence for XYZ reasons.

Correction, that is Stuart Shaw pushing hands with Fung not me. Stuart has a facebook page, The Fajin Project.

Some posts about John Fung, John Fung posts, etc.,

 

[windwalker099107]

Then, when an actual member of this forum presents a video as evidence that they cannot do it, then video doesnt count as evidence for XYZ reasons.

It’s interesting — when a video shows something not working, it’s quickly counted as “evidence.” But when a video shows something working, it’s usually dismissed. Most often, this judgment comes from people posting those clips to make their point, while never posting any of their own to show they can actually do the things they dismiss.

This thread wasn’t started as a contest to prove or disprove anyone. It was about what people thought of yi (意), drawing on their own experiences, with the video simply offered as a starting point.

 

[Kung Fu Wang107]

the nature of compliant people flying through the air when the teacher touches them. I am clearly saying I don’t believe it and it’s fake.

Agree with you 100% there. It's fake, fake, and absolute fake.

One day, I ask my SC teacher if this kind of "touch/fly" thing can be real. He said, "I haven't seen it in my life time. The chance that you will see it in your life time can be impossible". He said that back in his days, if anybody tried to demo "touch/fly" in public, people would challenge him next day.

One day I asked the Beijing Physical Education College SC/Judo/wrestling couch 王德英 Wang De-Yin. He said, "If this is real, what am I doing here for?" If this kind of "touch/flying" thing can be real, we should see it used in Olympic wrestling/Judo competition. So far, we haven't see it yet. Why?

 

[Kung Fu Wang107]

My intent is not to insult you.

The best online discussion skill is to "agree with someone" and "not to disagree with someone". If A and B have opposite opinions, instead of talking to A and say, "I disagree with you", I prefer talk to B and say "I agree with you".

The reason that I hate these kind of "push" videos so much is because I don't believe it.

 

[O'Malley93]

Because you are now asking a much more expansive question that beyond physical examples, diagrams and practice I am not sure one can answer in a post on MT, nor would I answer that, no offense, but I am not here to teach.

No worries, and it's definitely not for written communication, more hands on. I just chuckled at the "it's easy: just engineer the rocket".

The "dantia thing", if you understand spiraling (aka silk reeling) you should already be using and have some understanding of it. If you don't, you are not spiraling. So I don't think you have it.

Well, I hopefully have the necessary organs and tissues, can feel them and move them to coordinate other parts of the body (although nothing remotely functional yet). But when i hear very advanced practitioners describe what they do with the thing, it's still over my head.

 

[Marsha Larts]

There you go again with the projecting.

Calling your assumption that I'm upset by your tone an assumption is projecting

Got it

 

[Kung Fu Wang107]

when a video shows something working, it’s usually dismissed.

Do you have any video to show "push/fly" is used in boxing ring or Judo/wrestling mat?

On the mat, I had pushed and made my opponent fly. But I pulled my opponent first. When he resisted, I then borrowed his resistance force, added in my push. In one SC tournament, I had pushed my opponent's body to fly horizontally backward over 10 feet distance. But that was "borrow force" and not "push/fly".

 

[Marsha Larts]

No worries, and it's definitely not for written communication, more hands on. I just chuckled at the "it's easy: just engineer the rocket".

Well, I hopefully have the necessary organs and tissues, can feel them and move them to coordinate other parts of the body (although nothing remotely functional yet). But when i hear very advanced practitioners describe what they do with the thing, it's still over my head.

Even though we have it on WWG's authority that it has nothing to do with Tai Chi Chuan, it's possible to "navel gaze" without hands-on instruction.

Getting it 'functional' is all relative, but if you can feel it, it's already as functional as is required for wherever you may happen to be in your current practice. How could it be otherwise?

 

[Xue Sheng101]

Even though we have it on WWG's authority that it has nothing to do with Tai Chi Chuan, it's possible to "navel gaze" without hands-on instruction.

Getting it 'functional' is all relative, but if you can feel it, it's already as functional as is required for wherever you may happen to be in your current practice. How could it be otherwise?

what the heck is a "naval gaze"

 

[Wing Woo Gar42]

Even though we have it on WWG's authority that it has nothing to do with Tai Chi Chuan, it's possible to "navel gaze" without hands-on instruction.

Getting it 'functional' is all relative, but if you can feel it, it's already as functional as is required for wherever you may happen to be in your current practice. How could it be otherwise?

…and if you put your tooth under your pillow the fairy will come, if only you believe. Anything is possible in make believe land.

 

[Wing Woo Gar42]

what the heck is a "naval gaze"

Omphaloskepsis.

 

[Wing Woo Gar42]

Even though we have it on WWG's authority that it has nothing to do with Tai Chi Chuan, it's possible to "navel gaze" without hands-on instruction.

Getting it 'functional' is all relative, but if you can feel it, it's already as functional as is required for wherever you may happen to be in your current practice. How could it be otherwise?

I never said Yi has nothing to do with Tai Chi Chuan. That’s some creative storytelling. You keep avoiding my one and only point which is that there is no such thing as making someone fly away with a mere touch.

 

[Marsha Larts]

what the heck is a "naval gaze"

probably something like this:

"navel gazing"otoh is a term I've appropriated from WWG's dismissive remark made earlier. On the topic of this discussion, and in my reply to O'Malley's post in particular, it loosely refers to the exploration of intent as a means of developing lower dantian.

 

[Marsha Larts]

You keep avoiding my one and only point which is that there is no such thing as making someone fly away with a mere touch.

And you keep ignoring the fact that I don't care about that, as has been repeatedly made clear.

 

[Kung Fu Wang107]

there is no such thing as making someone fly away with a mere touch.

When a teacher pushes a student away, it indicates that teacher hasn't taught his student how to yield yet. It may reflect bad on that teacher and not on the student.

There are 2 different ways to yield.

1. Use stealing step to move your body out of your opponent's attacking path.
2. Disconnect your upper body with your low body. Rotate your upper body without moving your feet to deflect the incoming force.

Any student with 1 year of MA training should be able to do both 1 and 2.