I was asked to set up a basic...

[wab25]

Escape from the mount.

Which mount escape do you teach for self defense? Would you teach a different escape based on whether it was a one time class or a continuous class?

 

[drop bear]

Even in situations where de-escalation isn't the goal, using the basic strategies gives their mind something to work with that may help reduce freezing in the moment if they have to wait for an opportunity. It keeps the mind actively working, rather than focusing on the fear. I recall reading some research that supported that - I'll see if I can find anything in my notes on it.


So, no hand grenades?

Hard to train it is all. Deescalating kind of combines public speaking with the fear of being bashed. It takes a bit to keep the brain snappy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hard to train it is all. Deescalating kind of combines public speaking with the fear of being bashed. It takes a bit to keep the brain snappy.

Agreed, and impossible to pressure test in a class.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Agreed, and impossible to pressure test in a class.

Depends... if you can get your hands on a red man suit, or a masochist, you can pressure test most things in a class.

 

[hoshin1600]

Depends... if you can get your hands on a red man suit, or a masochist, you can pressure test most things in a class.

i have used the Red Man suit its really bulky and super hot and sweaty inside that suit.. the masochist is a much better option. lol

 

[Buka]

Which mount escape do you teach for self defense? Would you teach a different escape based on whether it was a one time class or a continuous class?

Basic oompa escape and shrimping. If I don't have time to teach both, I ain't teaching.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Depends... if you can get your hands on a red man suit, or a masochist, you can pressure test most things in a class.

Physical stuff, yeah. But not de-escalation.

 

[Juany118]

@hoshin1600 I know it seems like a disconnect, its just the "non-technique" issues I raised bring paragraphs of definition in my mind.

@gpseymour maybe I wasn't clear but the "punch" was simply a training tool. It just seems easier for some people to picture throwing a punch. That would simply be to illustrate how the arm and body should line up in a quick fashion. The goal being to then show them to do a palm strike/slap (since a WC palm strike is with an open hand and it thus looks very much like a slap.) .As for the kick I felt an oblique kick to the knee/upper leg, wouldn't be that big a hurdle as it's low, really doesnt telegraph, and doesn't compromise yourself that much

@Midnight-shadow and @gpseymour I had forgotten elbows, especially the rear elbow if an opponent has you clinched from behind, thank you.

For a block I was going to focus on what can be tied in with the "flinch" response so I was thinking what WC call Bil sau and Gan sau.

The target group is primarily females atm. In terms of length that is kind of up in the air atm. The group asking is a cohort from a College and we are still discussing that.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

@hoshin1600 I know it seems like a disconnect, its just the "non-technique" issues I raised bring paragraphs of definition in my mind.

@gpseymour maybe I wasn't clear but the "punch" was simply a training tool. It just seems easier for some people to picture throwing a punch. That would simply be to illustrate how the arm and body should line up in a quick fashion. The goal being to then show them to do a palm strike/slap (since a WC palm strike is with an open hand and it thus looks very much like a slap.) .As for the kick I felt an oblique kick to the knee/upper leg, wouldn't be that big a hurdle as it's low, really doesnt telegraph, and doesn't compromise yourself that much

@Midnight-shadow and @gpseymour I had forgotten elbows, especially the rear elbow if an opponent has you clinched from behind, thank you.

For a block I was going to focus on what can be tied in with the "flinch" response so I was thinking what WC call Bil sau and Gan sau.

The target group is primarily females atm. In terms of length that is kind of up in the air atm. The group asking is a cohort from a College and we are still discussing that.

For clarification, is it a continuous class, or a one time seminar?

 

[drop bear]

Agreed, and impossible to pressure test in a class.

Yeah. I was thinking maybe do it from a public speaking set up, so you stand up in front of everyone and deescalate someone else from across the room.

Just to put the screws in.

If you look at sales training they run through these flow chart style defense's. Which I found worked best until someone is comfortable with just talking.

 

[drop bear]

i have used the Red Man suit its really bulky and super hot and sweaty inside that suit.. the masochist is a much better option. lol

Yeah not a fan.

 

[Juany118]

For clarification, is it a continuous class, or a one time seminar?

My suggestion to them is a weekly class that lasts 2 months, so roughly 8 two hour days. Some of the people in the cohort are behind that. Others are looking for a Seminar Format. If we do that though I am hoping to get them on board with a weekend, no less than 5 hours "in class" for a total of 10 hours minimum over the course of the weekend. That's one of the reasons why I am trying to structure it around "avoid, respond, run" vs heavily focused on fighting.

 

[drop bear]

@gpseymour maybe I wasn't clear but the "punch" was simply a training tool. It just seems easier for some people to picture throwing a punch. That would simply be to illustrate how the arm and body should line up in a quick fashion. The goal being to then show them to do a palm strike/slap (since a WC palm strike is with an open hand and it thus looks very much like a slap.) .As for the kick I felt an oblique kick to the knee/upper leg, wouldn't be that big a hurdle as it's low, really doesnt telegraph, and doesn't compromise yourself that much

You will get more bang for your buck throwing punches than open hand shots. Regardless of the risk of a broken hand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@hoshin1600 I know it seems like a disconnect, its just the "non-technique" issues I raised bring paragraphs of definition in my mind.

@gpseymour maybe I wasn't clear but the "punch" was simply a training tool. It just seems easier for some people to picture throwing a punch. That would simply be to illustrate how the arm and body should line up in a quick fashion. The goal being to then show them to do a palm strike/slap (since a WC palm strike is with an open hand and it thus looks very much like a slap.) .As for the kick I felt an oblique kick to the knee/upper leg, wouldn't be that big a hurdle as it's low, really doesnt telegraph, and doesn't compromise yourself that much

@Midnight-shadow and @gpseymour I had forgotten elbows, especially the rear elbow if an opponent has you clinched from behind, thank you.

For a block I was going to focus on what can be tied in with the "flinch" response so I was thinking what WC call Bil sau and Gan sau.

The target group is primarily females atm. In terms of length that is kind of up in the air atm. The group asking is a cohort from a College and we are still discussing that.

Sounds well thought out. When you know the length, I’ll be happy to share more thoughts about timing and pace.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You will get more bang for your buck throwing punches than open hand shots. Regardless of the risk of a broken hand.

I’ve had mixed results with new folks. Timid people are somehow more able to put intent into a slap or palm strike in early training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My suggestion to them is a weekly class that lasts 2 months, so roughly 8 two hour days. Some of the people in the cohort are behind that. Others are looking for a Seminar Format. If we do that though I am hoping to get them on board with a weekend, no less than 5 hours "in class" for a total of 10 hours minimum over the course of the weekend. That's one of the reasons why I am trying to structure it around "avoid, respond, run" vs heavily focused on fighting.

I prefer the series, as well. There’s an easy cycle to the sessions, a chance to review, and better distributed learning. They take more time to do, but offer more real value.

 

[hoshin1600]

That's one of the reasons why I am trying to structure it around "avoid, respond, run" vs heavily focused on fighting.

i was going to suggest the Homeland security program "Hide, run, fight" . you can find some info on it at their web sight.
there is a corresponding video if you have the ability to show it. the basic outline is to show the video and talk about law enforcement"s role to find the assailant and stop the threat ,not to help those in need. that is for after the threat is gone and for EMT to deal with.

is avoid , respond, run the same ?

 

[jks9199]

Legal issues -- as in how not to go to jail. If you're teaching physical skills, you need to teach them when and how to handle it after the fact.

You're teaching college age girls. Who is most likely to attack them? In what manner? Do you know? Can you explain it to them in a way that is going to shatter their Disneyland mindset (Marc Macyoung's term... and the best I've seen for it.) and prepare them to deal with what's going to happen?

 

[Juany118]

i was going to suggest the Homeland security program "Hide, run, fight" . you can find some info on it at their web sight.
there is a corresponding video if you have the ability to show it. the basic outline is to show the video and talk about law enforcement"s role to find the assailant and stop the threat ,not to help those in need. that is for after the threat is gone and for EMT to deal with.

is avoid , respond, run the same ?

Seeing the video made me chuckle. My Sifu's day job is running a consultancy services that focuses a lot on threat management. We had a long talk one day about how his active shooter training is run, fight, hide. His rtionale being that when you go into a place with high body counts the greatest concentration of death seems to be the people that hid in closets, under tables etc.

It is similar regardless. To better explain.

That said the idea is very similar it's just that avoiding is going to be about avoiding the situation in the first place by using proper planning, situational awareness etc.

 

[Juany118]

You will get more bang for your buck throwing punches than open hand shots. Regardless of the risk of a broken hand.

You aren't using the whole hand though. It appears to be a slap but in reality you are just using the heel of your palm, especially the "meaty" portion "under" the pinky. I don't know why WC keeps the fingers out, but striking with that small surface area causes a goodly amount of damage, not just because of physics but because it can fit into small areas like the "KO" spot under the orbital. I also like it, for self defense applications, because it gives a change for the fingers to get in the eyes, or slapping on the ear etc.

As such my thought process was
1. What still does goodly damage.
2. Minimizes potential injury when striking a hard target. Not just broken fingers but wrist injuries due to poor alignment, lacerations from teeth etc.
3. Also has flexibility/side benefits beyond the full force impact of the strike.

Since this is about creating an opening to escape vs explicitly going for a KO, incidental striking to the eyes, ears etc can be a good distraction. This isn't to say punches aren't effective, of course they are, the thing is with the amount of time (or lack there of) I will have to work with, I am trying to keep to only a few techniques and have said techniques firmly in the "KISS" realm.