how confident are you in your art ?

[jobo]

we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .

how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?

I've been thinking about this In my own context, and I'm really not sure that my skills are good enough to cope, but I'm a novice compared to many on here who are experts.

in that i also consider people in my group, who are much more skilled than i, who i am pretty sure ( through sparing)i can knock into next week with out breaking a,sweat, based just on my physical advantages as above

so, what say you?

 

[CB Jones]

bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur

That makes him 7’7” and 288 lbs.....

Is he a small Sasquatch?

 

[jobo]

That makes him 7’7” and 288 lbs.....

so a line backer then?

i said bigger rather than taller, but I'm 6'1 and two hundred pounds, and found myself in a situation with some one who was 6"8 and two fifty pounds, his calve were bigger than my thighs, so bigger is quite feasible even if your quite big yourself,

300lbs steroid pumping monsters with huge necks are at at all un common round her

 

[hoshin1600]

@jobo you seem to have a preoccupation with muscle size and strength. your always seem to focus on physical strength and endurance. so it comes as no surprise to me that you compare your own abilities in this way. i have gone against guys way bigger than i that were prison guards who worked out 2 times a day, and you know what they couldnt hit worth a crap.
my own experience tells me that size matters but its not everything. experience matters more. now that could be training experience but actual experience in violence is much more a factor. the guy that has spent time in prison who likes to fight at the drop of a hat, the one who has a side of his personality that is pure malevolence...now that is the guy that worries me regardless of his size.

 

[jobo]

@jobo you seem to have a preoccupation with muscle size and strength. your always seem to focus on physical strength and endurance. so it comes as no surprise to me that you compare your own abilities in this way. i have gone against guys way bigger than i that were prison guards who worked out 2 times a day, and you know what they couldnt hit worth a crap.
my own experience tells me that size matters but its not everything. experience matters more. now that could be training experience but actual experience in violence is much more a factor. the guy that has spent time in prison who likes to fight at the drop of a hat, the one who has a side of his personality that is pure malevolence...now that is the guy that worries me regardless of his size.

its perfectly worthy question, if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain mechanical advantage, the question how much of an advantage that gives you in the real world.

your answers seem to indecate that you feel your prison( guard) experiance means you are,confident in your,art to deal with bigger, fitter stronger oppoinent, which is great , but you didn't actually say they were stronger or fitter, and they don't have to hit you, just jump on you

 

[hoshin1600]

, if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain mechanical advantage,

see i believe this is only partial true. there is also a psychological component. violence is also emotional. you can overwhelm people with it to the point they just cave in.

 

[jobo]

see i believe this is only partial true. there is also a psychological component. violence is also emotional. you can overwhelm people with it to the point they just cave in.

that to a large part comes under experiance and is an intrinsic part of your ma learning, Surely ! but yes, if your re going to freeze or other wise be overwhelmed then size strength and ma go out of the window, and you could be beaten up by a by a 80 lb 80 year old using a walking frame.

 

[hoshin1600]

this is were ring vs street shows the biggest divide because in the street you often have an ambush.
i want to attack with three components. speed, surprise and violence of action. i look at fitness and technique as a pre requisite.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

300lbs steroid pumping monsters with huge necks are at at all un common round her

Note to self: Don't go to Manchester UK.

its perfectly worthy question, if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain mechanical advantage, the question how much of an advantage that gives you in the real world.

Some arts are defensive in nature. That can give some advantages I think. And I understand what I think you mean by mechanical advantage, but some pain compliance isn't just that mechanical in the meaning of joint locks or throws, if that is what you meant. Pressure points wouldn't normally be considered mechanical. But that is minor. Otherwise I agree.

your answers seem to indecate that you feel your prison( guard) experiance means you are,confident in your,art to deal with bigger, fitter stronger oppoinent, which is great , but you didn't actually say they were stronger or fitter, and they don't have to hit you, just jump on you

Even bum-rushes can be defended against. The problem with prisoners is that even it they don't know a formal MA, they have lots of time to keep in great physical condition and learn those fighting techniques that work best in prison. They will also often not monkey dance, just with little or no warning, attack.

If I have misstated anything about prisoners, hoshin 1600 can correct me.

As to me, I have no doubt my art is effective. I am getting long in the tooth so I'm not so sure about myself.

 

[jobo]

this is were ring vs street shows the biggest divide because in the street you often have an ambush.
i want to attack with three components. speed, surprise and violence of action. i look at fitness and technique as a pre requisite.

yes, but that isn't the most common way it goes down, unless its Robery, sexual a phyco or a serious grudge, most confrontations have a bone of contention,a discussion on who will do what to who and who's army they will use, before,blows are exchanged, which clearly gives,an opportunity to leave, but also rather removes the element of surprise . Even with the first lot, there may be " warning" if only by the situation location

 

[hoshin1600]

ambush doesnt mean the other guy is off smelling the roses when i jump out from behind a tree and trounce on him. it just means shifting gears into a preemptive striking when he is still chest puffing and peacocking.

 

[jobo]

Note to self: Don't go to Manchester UK.



Some arts are defensive in nature. That can give some advantages I think. And I understand what I think you mean by mechanical advantage, but some pain compliance isn't just that mechanical in the meaning of joint locks or throws, if that is what you meant. Pressure points wouldn't normally be considered mechanical. But that is minor. Otherwise I agree.



Even bum-rushes can be defended against. The problem with prisoners is that even it they don't know a formal MA, they have lots of time to keep in great physical condition and learn those fighting techniques that work best in prison. They will also often not monkey dance, just with little or no warning, attack.

If I have misstated anything about prisoners, hoshin 1600 can correct me.

As to me, I have no doubt my art is effective. I am getting long in the tooth so I'm not so sure about myself.

only that he was fighting prison gards, rather than prisoners and in a " ring " i assume.

the rest kind of echoes my point, very fit attackers, with street smarts, prisoner or not are there and need to be factored in, your unlikely to be attacked by a lawyer even if he does work out

its really a personal question, rather than an ma in general question, i have faith in my art, that is if i was bigger stronger fitter and much much better, then id take on very much anybody with confidence, as i did when i was indeed much younger fitter and stronger and doing ma.

however that not the situation i find myself lf in to day, and I'm not sure Il ever be good enough skill wise to compensate

nb all body movements are ( bio) " mechanical" so any leverage punch kick or block is better if the mechanism is correct

 

[jobo]

ambush doesnt mean the other guy id off smelling the roses when i jump out from behind a tree and trounce on him. it just means shifting gears into a preemptive striking when he is still chest puffing and peacocking.

yes that's a good strat, which will give you the element of surprise,

 

[CB Jones]

The problem with prisoners is that even it they don't know a formal MA, they have lots of time to keep in great physical condition and learn those fighting techniques that work best in prison.

And sometimes those techniques become formal MA...like Jailhouse Rock/52 Blocks

 

[Kababayan]

we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .

how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?

I've been thinking about this In my own context, and I'm really not sure that my skills are good enough to cope, but I'm a novice compared to many on here who are experts.

in that i also consider people in my group, who are much more skilled than i, who i am pretty sure ( through sparing)i can knock into next week with out breaking a,sweat, based just on my physical advantages as above

so, what say you?

Answering this honestly, I would say that I didn't feel completely confident until I studied Krav Maga. I'm not going to use this as an advertisement for Krav; it is more a reflection on my part. I first began training in Tang Soo Do at a young age and I did daily sparring with adults, but it was "tag" sparring without much aggressiveness. My next arts were considered traditional and all included controlled sparring and controlled drill environments but nothing that made me feel too uncomfortable. Even as a sports karate guy and then a kickboxer, all of my matches were in controlled environments that included referees. I am not a "talker", so when someone would get into my face I would feel uncomfortable. I wanted to go right into the "hands-up and fight" competition mode. That was my comfort zone. My comfort zone included both people agreeing to fight and the ability to put our hands up in an agreed upon contest. I have been in a few situations, and my traditional martial arts training worked very well, but all of those situations happened to fall into my comfort zone. My comfort zone did not include drunken sucker punches, gun in my face, knife hidden in a sleeve, guy on drugs, active shooter, etc. Krav and their training drills, I feel, filled in those self defense gaps. My traditional arts didn't have, for example, realistic knife defenses or consistent scenario training. There are other great self defense systems out there; I am just speaking from my own experience.

 

[JowGaWolf]

we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .

how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?

I've been thinking about this In my own context, and I'm really not sure that my skills are good enough to cope, but I'm a novice compared to many on here who are experts.

in that i also consider people in my group, who are much more skilled than i, who i am pretty sure ( through sparing)i can knock into next week with out breaking a,sweat, based just on my physical advantages as above

so, what say you?

I'm comfortable that I have something in my tool box that will help me out. Even if they are stronger, faster, and bigger. I can't guarantee that I'll win all the time but I don't feel that I'll have the difficulties that some other people would have. Fighting in the street is different than fighting in the ring. The street gives me more opportunities to utilize the environment so I would feel comfortable with using kung fu (not just basic kickboxing).

If someone is untrained then I'll have the upper hand.

My statements come from only having to spar and hold back what I feel I could actually do. Sometimes you can see something so clearly that you know without a doubt. I have a lot of brutality that I don't bring out during sparring. To be honest, most of my confidence probably comes from fact that I'm happy with being brutal if necessary.

 

[Kababayan]

...most of my confidence probably comes from fact that I'm happy with being brutal if necessary.

This quote is so true. This ability, in my opinion, replaces years of martial arts training. My friend, a former Army Ranger and a real bad-***, said that martial arts training made his fighting worse until he learned how to balance his Ranger training and his natural "jerk" attitude with his martial arts training. The fact that he could hit a guy without hesitation was one of the best aspects about his fighting ability.

 

[Buka]

I'm good. Still have my lunch money and everything.

 

[drop bear]

I live in a country with pretty good healthcare. If I get bashed I get bashed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This quote is so true. This ability, in my opinion, replaces years of martial arts training. My friend, a former Army Ranger and a real bad-***, said that martial arts training made his fighting worse until he learned how to balance his Ranger training and his natural "jerk" attitude with his martial arts training. The fact that he could hit a guy without hesitation was one of the best aspects about his fighting ability.

It's my opinion that a lot of today's martial arts training focuses too much on "Zen." For many it's all about being peaceful and not fighting.

My perception of zen is totally different. To me zen is less about peaceful as in peace, and more about the ability to control one's self. I accept the "darkness" of brutality and I understand that the ability to be brutal does not extinguish the ability to be kind. In my opinion Martial Arts should be all about learning how to manage that brutality vs trying to be peaceful. The very nature of Martial Arts Techniques is about brutality, to act without thought of action. To learn how to disconnect motion and only focus on the brutal action that must be done. The very nature of Martial Arts training shows us how to turn the "brutality switch" on and off. Martial Arts was never created to be peaceful. Yet for some reason, many schools train in brutal techniques and claim to be only for peace. To me that is the biggest denial and imbalance that one could do to themselves in the context of training for self-defense.

Brutality should be void of emotion. It should be something that we can turn on and turn off at will. Emotions tend to cloud actions and makes it more difficult to control one's own brutality. Meditation works in the same way. Meditation should be void of emotions, only the action of meditation matters. There is no brotherhood, love, or thoughts of well-being. There is only a void where focus of action is the only thing that is allowed to exists. In martial arts that action is physically fighting. In meditation that action is control of self, sometimes it's breathing, sometimes it's moving energy. Both should be a switch that turns on and off as needed.