I had my shot and I failed

[Dirty Dog]

My take on this might be a little different from what I'm seeing from others....

Unless I'm mistaken, you've said in the past that you don't actually have any significant training. You've had the occasional isolated training experience, but nothing like sustained training with a qualified instructor. You watch YouBoob videos and try to train yourself based on what you see there. Which, as has been mentioned endlessly doesn't really work.

Then you tried out for a competitive team against people who do have significant training. And got pummeled, from the sound of things.

So maybe go get some real training and THEN try to compete?

 

[Unkogami]

My take on this might be a little different from what I'm seeing from others....

Unless I'm mistaken, you've said in the past that you don't actually have any significant training. You've had the occasional isolated training experience, but nothing like sustained training with a qualified instructor. You watch YouBoob videos and try to train yourself based on what you see there. Which, as has been mentioned endlessly doesn't really work.

Then you tried out for a competitive team against people who do have significant training. And got pummeled, from the sound of things.

So maybe go get some real training and THEN try to compete?

Competition IS real training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Competition IS real training.

Competition is where you test your training. It isn't the same as training.

 

[Ivan]

I am still confused. What is so special about this team? Are they like trying out for the Olympics or something?

I mean I have had mates who have represented Australia in combat sports and fair enough you have to try out and be the business to do that.

But you are trying at this stage to be a first time fighter. You have to be that good when you start. And boxing especially I have known guys who compete every weekend. There are shows on all the time.

There has to be clubs that are a better introduction to combat sports than what you are doing.

I am thinking even clubs that have pro fight teams that you need to try out for. Train fighters not in those teams.

Tiger muay Thai has try outs. But you can still train and have a fight without having to do that.

Unfortunately not. The team and their coaches are very exclusive. All other classes offered are boxfit classes with little technique and absolutely no sparring. There is just once class where I get work in on a sunday, with the nice coach. He allows us to spar and helps us with our technique. Other than that, nothing. You can only fight for the gym if you're in the team as far as I know. The reason for this, supposedly, is that the team is still relatively new and it has already had some issues in its past with its members - I believe it is a reputation thing.
However, it's the best team in the city. They smashed the novice amateur championships, and I believe that they took home almost half of all the medals, if i am not mistaken.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Unfortunately not. The team and their coaches are very exclusive. All other classes offered are boxfit classes with little technique and absolutely no sparring. There is just once class where I get work in on a sunday, with the nice coach. He allows us to spar and helps us with our technique. Other than that, nothing. You can only fight for the gym if you're in the team as far as I know. The reason for this, supposedly, is that the team is still relatively new and it has already had some issues in its past with its members - I believe it is a reputation thing.
However, it's the best team in the city. They smashed the novice amateur championships, and I believe that they took home almost half of all the medals, if i am not mistaken.

It sounds like their success in competition may be due to their selection process, rather than their training. They're not taking anyone in (from what you've posted) who isn't already quite good.

What you want to find is someplace that's really good at developing fighters, not just at selecting them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Competition IS real training.

No it's not. Competition is one place to TEST your training. Without training, competition isn't competition. It's just a place to get smacked around.

 

[Ivan]

It sounds like their success in competition may be due to their selection process, rather than their training. They're not taking anyone in (from what you've posted) who isn't already quite good.

What you want to find is someplace that's really good at developing fighters, not just at selecting them.

That's exactly how it is. One of the coaches told me. They only select people who are already at an amateur level, especially fitness wise too. They then polish them up with sparring and lots and lots of drills.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Competition is where you test your training. It isn't the same as training.

This is my perspective as well. I shouldn't be trying to test stuff out in a competition. I should be using things that are reliable for me. This is where my training is validated. This is where I will know if I understand my system as much as I think I do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It sounds like their success in competition may be due to their selection process, rather than their training. They're not taking anyone in (from what you've posted) who isn't already quite good.

What you want to find is someplace that's really good at developing fighters, not just at selecting them.

Like picking a team for recreational basketball. When it's your turn, you pick the best of the losing team and any new guys you think can help you win.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's exactly how it is. One of the coaches told me. They only select people who are already at an amateur level, especially fitness wise too. They then polish them up with sparring and lots and lots of drills.

If we knew this from the start the many of us would have told you to seek training somewhere else. The good thing is that one of the coaches is willing to still help you out. Use that opportunity until you can find a place to train and learn under.

 

[drop bear]

Unfortunately not. The team and their coaches are very exclusive. All other classes offered are boxfit classes with little technique and absolutely no sparring. There is just once class where I get work in on a sunday, with the nice coach. He allows us to spar and helps us with our technique. Other than that, nothing. You can only fight for the gym if you're in the team as far as I know. The reason for this, supposedly, is that the team is still relatively new and it has already had some issues in its past with its members - I believe it is a reputation thing.
However, it's the best team in the city. They smashed the novice amateur championships, and I believe that they took home almost half of all the medals, if i am not mistaken.

Fair enough. You need to hit another direction for a bit then. Try and develop your armature fight game somewhere.

I would suggest a different gym.

 

[drop bear]

Competition is where you test your training. It isn't the same as training.

It is. Because it is a developmental tool for the most part.

I mean most people are not making money of fighting in the Olympics. They are using that experience to get better.

And what that means is loosing has benefit. Because it is training.

 

[Brian King]

That's probably why this team is the most successful one in my city.

Hard to tell by a single interaction whether these coaches are jerks, having a bad session, or following a plan to get the culture that they are trying to build. You do not have the mileage and distance to tell if this "loss" is a blessing or bigger blessing. It takes time on the journey to be able to look back and see where you where and what the paths look like. Accept the 'loss' and let feed the candle wick of your journey, perhaps it is not yet rather than never.

Ivan, can you tell me what makes a "successful" team, a "successful" boxer? Is it number of medals and trophies, wins vs losses record, bragging rights? Let's do an exercise, look at your life as you feel/see it is right now. Be honest by putting down not just the negative but also the positive. WRITE it down. Now the fun part, project out 20 or 30 years and envision your successful life. For example, in 30 years Ivan is now very happily married with three grown children who are pursing professional careers (with one following in the footsteps of dad and mom by teaching successful boxing programs to disadvantaged youths in two different cities). You have a successful business that is employing 500 people and paying them high wages with many family benefits, You have the time to volunteer at many charities and are on the boards of three successful civic organizations. WRITE down how you would like your life to look in 30 years. You now have a map and a goal. A goal with out a plan is merely a dream. Look at your map that you have written out. There is a starting point (Today I am here) and an ending point (In 30 years I will be...) The plan comes in driving your life from starting point to ending point. I challenge you to find a role models in sports (since that is where your current interest lay) that is successful by your definition (based on where you would like your life to be in 30 years from now). Read up on those people and their organizations. Reach out to them and seek a bit of advice. Find out how they went from point A to point B. I can guarantee that it wasn't easy or a straight line up and to the right. They all will have had challenges and failures that made them better and stronger. Learn from them and let their stories motivate and guide you.

For me, success as an instructor has been guiding and letting my students discover the tools to make better choices for themselves and their community. To help people through training discover how to strengthen bonds and relationships. To get better at living by getting better at fighting and getting better at fighting by getting better at living. It is not surprising that my own life has been enriched by the journey of many.

Good luck young Ivan. I have faith that the older Ivan will be bigger, stronger, and smarter than the current, and I hope successful by life's important measures.

Good luck
Regards
Brian King

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is. Because it is a developmental tool for the most part.

I mean most people are not making money of fighting in the Olympics. They are using that experience to get better.

And what that means is loosing has benefit. Because it is training.

I think you're playing semantics here. If you just compete, without training, that competition has far less benefit. If you train (because that's a different thing) then the competition is where you evaluate, so you can adjust your training (which is a different thing).

 

[drop bear]

I think you're playing semantics here. If you just compete, without training, that competition has far less benefit. If you train (because that's a different thing) then the competition is where you evaluate, so you can adjust your training (which is a different thing).

You can train different things.

 

[Unkogami]

Competition is where you test your training. It isn't the same as training.

It's the best kind of training.

 

[Unkogami]

No it's not. Competition is one place to TEST your training. Without training, competition isn't competition. It's just a place to get smacked around.

Training without competition (real competition) is just going through the motions. How many X degree this or that belts get their asses handed to them when **** gets hot for real out in the real world without compliant 'partners' in the training hall?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's the best kind of training.

You and I have very different definitions of "training", then.

Training is a deliberate exercise. Competition removes that, because you have to respond to your opponent, who is purposely trying to interfere with any deliberate plan you have.

 

[drop bear]

You and I have very different definitions of "training", then.

Training is a deliberate exercise. Competition removes that, because you have to respond to your opponent, who is purposely trying to interfere with any deliberate plan you have.

That is called resisted training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is how I understand training
"the action of teaching a person or animal a particular skill or type of behavior" In competition. Your opponent isn't trying to teach you anything and you aren't trying to learn anything.

This is how I understand competition
"Competition is a rivalry where two or more parties strive for a common goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is the other's loss."

This is why we don't put beginners in a Pro MMA fight and call it training. It's just not going to happen. Even if it's a light competition of point sparring in the school, it's not training. If the goal is to win by scoring then you'll only use the techniques that you are good at. If you are only allowed to using one technique to see who can win, then you still aren't training. Even with that one technique you won't risk making the mistakes that are necessary for learning and training, because your goal in competition isn't to learn, it's to win.

This is why I always treat sparring as learning and competition as "Bring your A game"