I had my shot and I failed

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This is how I understand training
"the action of teaching a person or animal a particular skill or type of behavior" In competition. Your opponent isn't trying to teach you anything and you aren't trying to learn anything.

This is how I understand competition
"Competition is a rivalry where two or more parties strive for a common goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is the other's loss."

This is why we don't put beginners in a Pro MMA fight and call it training. It's just not going to happen. Even if it's a light competition of point sparring in the school, it's not training. If the goal is to win by scoring then you'll only use the techniques that you are good at. If you are only allowed to using one technique to see who can win, then you still aren't training. Even with that one technique you won't risk making the mistakes that are necessary for learning and training, because your goal in competition isn't to learn, it's to win.

This is why I always treat sparring as learning and competition as "Bring your A game"

But you do try to learn in a competitive fight. You learn how to handle adrenaline and your own stamina, and how to apply techniques against a higher level of resistance, among other things. You're just learning different things than you do in the dojo.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But you do try to learn in a competitive fight.

I don't learn anything in a competitive fight. Everything is about adapting and understanding my opponent. This is different than learning.

You learn how to handle adrenaline and your own stamina, and how to apply techniques against a higher level of resistance, among other things.

I learn this in training, not in competition.

You're just learning different things than you do in the dojo.

Nope. Anything that happens in competition is reviewed and reflected on after the competition. I take that information and use it in my training to help me be better prepared from the next competition. This is how it works for me. 100% effort is used for defeating my opponent.

I'm a person who spars to learn. I don't spar to win. So doing competition to learn makes no sense to me. Here's an example. I spent one day every week for a year sparring to learn. That amount of time used to learn outweighs the little time that I would have trying to learn while someone is trying to knock my head off. If people only spar to win then they are throwing away their opportunity to maximizing their learning.

The reason I'm able to use so much Jow Ga Kung Fu is because I spar to learn. When and if competition comes, I will use what I've learned in training.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't learn anything in a competitive fight. Everything is about adapting and understanding my opponent. This is different than learning.

People learn how to adapt. For many it's a learning by doing thing.

I learn this in training, not in competition.

I guess the word "you" was incorrect. I meant it as a general you, rather than you specifically. That said, I've yet to meet anyone who didn't have a learning curve on how to appropriately manage their stamina the first few times they entered a competitive 'fight' regardless of the sport. Once it's learned though one doesn't have to continue relearning it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

But you do try to learn in a competitive fight.

Some. But not mostly. Sparring is more about testing your abilities and application of what you know. That's why you're not going to find many (if any) places that just throw you in the ring and say "go for it". You train. You learn. Then you spar.
From what I recall of posts by the OP, their big mistake seems to be that they're trying to skip the actual training part. Watching some YouBoob videos and trying to copy them isn't going to work. As they've demonstrated.

 

[drop bear]

I'm a person who spars to learn. I don't spar to win. So doing competition to learn makes no sense to me. Here's an example. I spent one day every week for a year sparring to learn. That amount of time used to learn outweighs the little time that I would have trying to learn while someone is trying to knock my head off. If people only spar to win then they are throwing away their opportunity to maximizing their learning.

Not always. Sparring to win does teach you necessary lessons. Sparring to learn also teaches necessary lessons.

Two different exercises. Two different outcomes. Both part of training.

Competition teaches you necessary lessons. And is part of training.

Bear in mind an amateur boxer can have 50 or 60 fights. He is building his ability by having those fights.

 

[JowGaWolf]

People learn how to adapt. For many it's a learning by doing thing.

I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm just sharing my personal perspective on how I learn because it shows that it's different than what you are saying.one

I don't learn how to adapt. I take what I already know and apply possible solutions to see which one works better to address the changing system. This is not a learning situation because if you don't have the solution already then you can't adapt. Adaptation = bringing existing solutions to the table. These solutions are based on existing skills.

If the solution is to use better footwork, then you won't learn that better footwork in the heat of the moment. This is how long he had to learn better footwork. He had the same amount of time to learn better defense.

The reason he couldn't adapt is because those skill did not exist. Because those skills didn't exist (he did not learn them) , he could not draw from them and use them to adapt.

I've yet to meet anyone who didn't have a learning curve on how to appropriately manage their stamina the first few times they entered a competitive 'fight' regardless of the sport.

You have now. I learn how to manage my stamina through sparring. Keep in mind that I see competition where a Winner and Loser exists. I see stamina like running (because I ran track and cross country). I learn to manage stamina through training. I don't wait until competition day to try.

For example when I gassed out at the Sanda school. I took note of how tired I was getting, I had to make adjustments, and then pushed through and all of it sucked. As a result I changed my training so that my stamina would improved. I did a lot of 1 minute sparring rounds. If I had to fight 3 minutes rounds then I would do a lot of 5 minute sparring rounds. In my current training, I try to stay consistently active during the workout. The most rest I get is 15 seconds which is more of a transition point. When sparring I try to do a Round Robin so that I get fresh bodies to spar against every minute. This transition time is around 3 seconds.

If I need to train stamina for hitting my hardest then I take it out on the heavy bag and I do my footwork around the heavy bag. By doing this, I can be ready when it's time to Win or Lose

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sparring to win does teach you necessary lessons.

I have never done this in my life. If there's a Win or Lose outcome then it's competition.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That is called resisted training.

There's definitely overlap in that.

I think of resisted training as starting with simple resistance (making it harder to do the assigned technique) and progressing to more complex resistance (opposing goals within the exercise).

Competition (whether sanctioned or informal) is both sides trying to accomplish essentially the same goal, using everything they have (within reason and the agreed ruleset) to accomplish it.

As I think it through, both of those definitions could be broadened to create the overlap I mentioned. That said, when we talk about them in the same discussion, it's pretty much useless to talk about them in the overlap, still using both terms. So when both are used, it only makes sense to use them in contrast.

And if we talk about sanctioned competition, that's not (in my mind) training, because you're not (if you're actually competing) going to be working on developing a specific skill during the competition - you'll use what you already have, and use the feedback as input to your training. I've had at least one person on here argue that nothing not sanctioned isn't really competition, and offers none of the benefit of competition. That's a specious claim, but it highlights that "competition" isn't usually referring to just resisted training.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't learn anything in a competitive fight.

I think people here may confuse between "develop/learn" and "test". You cannot develop/learn in fight. You can only test your skill in fight.

For example, you can spar all your life. But you will never be able to develop/learn "hip throw" throwing sparring/wrestling.

 

[Unkogami]

...

For example, you can spar all your life. But you will never be able to develop/learn "hip throw" throwing sparring/wrestling.

On the contrary, if all you ever do is practice you will never know if you can actually pull off the throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

On the contrary, if all you ever do is practice you will never know if you can actually pull off the throw.

That's what I have said. You first develop skill through partner drill. You then test skill through sparring/wrestling.

develop -> test

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think people here may confuse between "develop/learn" and "test". You cannot develop/learn in fight. You can only test your skill in fight.

For example, you can spar all your life. But you will never be able to develop/learn "hip throw" throwing sparring/wrestling.

I agree with the first part but I'm not sure what you mean by the second. Unless you mean sparring without development. For example, someone who spars but never tries anything new like a "hip throw." In that context the person is sparring but may not be developing anything. If that's what you mean then I would agree that a person could spar for a life time and never touch a hip throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I agree with the first part but I'm not sure what you mean by the second. Unless you mean sparring without development. For example, someone who spars but never tries anything new like a "hip throw." In that context the person is sparring but may not be developing anything. If that's what you mean then I would agree that a person could spar for a life time and never touch a hip throw.

What I am saying is if you have "never" developed hip throw through partner drill, you just can't suddenly pull it out in sparring/wrestling.

People may say that testing in sparring/wrestling is part of the skill developing. It depends on how you may define it.

I like to define

- partner drill for developing.
- sparring/wrestling for testing.

 

[Unkogami]

That's what I have said. You first develop skill through partner drill. You then test skill through sparring/wrestling.

develop -> test

Until you really

That's what I have said. You first develop skill through partner drill. You then test skill through sparring/wrestling.

develop -> test

There are elements of the skill involved that you will never develop if you never actually try it in competition.

 

[SgtBarnes]

They kicked someone out from their team just because he kept falling down during wall-sits. No ifs, no buts, no tolerance.

Real Rambos. Half these trainers are themselves out of condition and couldn’t do it themselves

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think people here may confuse between "develop/learn" and "test". You cannot develop/learn in fight. You can only test your skill in fight.

For example, you can spar all your life. But you will never be able to develop/learn "hip throw" throwing sparring/wrestling.

I do think some things are developed during a fight. Folks mentioned earlier the adaptation to the stress of the moment. That's difficult (probably not impossible) to develop without something very much like a fight. You need the adrenaline dump to have a chance to develop that control.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Real Rambos. Half these trainers are themselves out of condition and couldn’t do it themselves

You seem to be confusing the job of the trainer with the job of the fighter. If I go to a boxing gym for training, I want someone who is good at developing boxers. If the guy is 20 years past his prime, that's not at all relevant to his ability to train others.

 

[SgtBarnes]

You seem to be confusing the job of the trainer with the job of the fighter. If I go to a boxing gym for training, I want someone who is good at developing boxers. If the guy is 20 years past his prime, that's not at all relevant to his ability to train others.

Wouldn't you expect a sensei to know a kata he teaches you?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wouldn't you expect a sensei to know a kata he teaches you?

Of course. But what does that have to do with whether someone is in shape or not?

 

[SgtBarnes]

Of course. But what does that have to do with whether someone is in shape or not?

You would expect him to show you a perfect demonstration and I feel this way about a trainer. Would you let a beer belly trainer tell you about crunches & diet or show you he's walking proof of his teachings?