How to handle the parents

[shesulsa]

The only excuse for that would be if someone were ill and couldn't handle the light/heat, and Terry said there are other places to sit that are not in the sun.

I wouldn't ask my son's football coaches to provide me with an umbrella or canopy. Jeez.

 

[ATC]

I don't know if I'd go that far. They are paying your bills but that doesn't give them the right to be blatantly disrespectful.

Sometimes examples have to be made. We use to have a ton of parent issues just like this and more. As soon as we started kicking students and parents out it all stopped. Many came back very apologetic and begging for a second chance.

There was one little girl (about 14 at the time and very good) that was about to test for her black belt. She had been at the school for 5 years. The dad had a falling out with the instructor over nothing his daughter did. Our master instructor banned him from the school and then one week later kicked out his daugher as well. The daughter and the instructor got along very well but because the dad still had to drop off the daughter and still had some dealings with other parents he had to cut ties totally.

At first I thought this way over the top and felt bad for the girl as she had built so many bonds with other students and instructors. One test away from her black belt also made it seem extra harsh.

Now looking back I see the reasoning behind it. It stopped any spread of gossip, true or unture and kept the integraty of the social structure in tack minimizing any further damage possibly stopping greater loss.

It also let parents know that this is not there business and that they do not make or set any rules what so ever.

What happended to the dad and daughter. They come by often wishing to come back. The dad even joined another school and his daughter hates that school, stops by all the time now on her own to just sit and watches classes, 3 years after being kicked out.

But then again the owner is Korean and they can be stuborn, so I'm told. I have yet seen anyone kicked out be let back in. This even includes instructors that have been raised and taught by the owner/GM.

 

[ATC]

Interesting way of dealing with customers...

Every merchant has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. The golden rule is not always applicable.

 

[TKD_Father]

Every merchant has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

Not true.

 

[ATC]

Not true.

What's not ture? If I own or run a business I do not have to server anyone if I choose not to. Even under a contract I can still refuse to serve you. I will have to give you your money back or pay you depending on the contract, but I do not have to serve you.

 

[CoryKS]

What's not ture? If I own or run a business I do not have to server anyone if I choose not to. Even under a contract I can still refuse to serve you. I will have to give you your money back or pay you depending on the contract, but I do not have to serve you.

Yes, and if you had so many potential students clamoring to get into your school that you could afford to treat them this way, then you probably wouldn't have had to keep the blinds open in the hope of attracting students in the first place.

Something about flies and honey comes to mind.

 

[TKD_Father]

What's not ture? If I own or run a business I do not have to server anyone if I choose not to. Even under a contract I can still refuse to serve you. I will have to give you your money back or pay you depending on the contract, but I do not have to serve you.

As to providing a service.

The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."


The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.

As to a contract. You would have to written into the original document the fact that you can terminate service at any time without any cause. If you simply want to terminate and pay back, that must be in the original document or you would be subject to legal action.

 

[KELLYG]

1.The blinds that I have at home have wands that control the adjustment of the amount of light that is allowed in. These can be removed. No wand no adjustment no hassle.

2. Remove the blinds

3. Talk to the people that took it upon themselves to make adjustments in your lighting, knowing beforehand that you wanted them to remain open.

4. Tell them to leave or wait in their cars where they can control their own environment.

 

[dortiz]

"I have yet seen anyone kicked out be let back in. This even includes instructors that have been raised and taught by the owner/GM. "

The way this reads it almost sounds like they get tossed in large numbers??

 

[CoryKS]

"I have yet seen anyone kicked out be let back in. This even includes instructors that have been raised and taught by the owner/GM. "

The way this reads it almost sounds like they get tossed in large numbers??

"No martial arts for you!"

 

[ATC]

As to providing a service.

The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

Every prviate merchant has the right to refuse service even on the basis of race if they are so bold.

Country Clubs for example can restrict or accept membership based on any criteria since they are privately funded.

Unless the merchant in question is subsidized with federal or local govt grants or resides on federal or local govt land.

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.

This only states that I would have to provide access to the dissabled. Example would be a wheelchair ramp into my business. I still can refuse to serve them for any reason.

As to a contract. You would have to written into the original document the fact that you can terminate service at any time without any cause. If you simply want to terminate and pay back, that must be in the original document or you would be subject to legal action.

I already said that in the case of a contract I would be made to pay or make them whole (give them their money back) but I still can refuse to serve them.

 

[ynnad]

Hmmm...why are there blinds up to begin with? Obviously you realized that the sun was a problem. The parents are just confirming that. I don't think it is out of bounds for them to expect you to use the blinds that are there for a purpose.

And as far as the idea proposed that you should take them down and tell them the blinds got broke...are you kidding me? Lying over something like this. Stunning.

 

[TKD_Father]

Every prviate merchant has the right to refuse service even on the basis of race if they are so bold.

Wow, you are really misinformed, or I'm simply not understanding you.

Does a Restaurant Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service to Specific Patrons?

No! The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions. For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having aprostedic leg.


But Aren’t Restaurants Considered Private Property?

Yes, however they are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status


So Are “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” Signs in Restaurants Legal?

Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a “Right to Refuse Service” sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

There's more, I can give you some links to check. Just search for "refusing service" and you'll find plenty.

 

[dortiz]

"Lying over something like this. Stunning. "
I dislike when white lies which preserve folks feelings and calm are thrust in with bad lies. I do believe there is a difference. Anyone with family knows that. Many times we say what is best for our child or our dear loved ones butt. Its just polite.
Better a white lie than a confrontation in this case.

Dave O.

 

[shesulsa]

Hmmm...why are there blinds up to begin with? Obviously you realized that the sun was a problem. The parents are just confirming that. I don't think it is out of bounds for them to expect you to use the blinds that are there for a purpose.

And as far as the idea proposed that you should take them down and tell them the blinds got broke...are you kidding me? Lying over something like this. Stunning.

Is it? It is a polite lie offered to avoid further arguments in the lobby. Besides ... the blinds just might get broken in their de-installation. I would have no problem saying this because it would also put the people who closed the blinds in the position of either change or confrontation. If they become confrontational again, then Terry has more fodder for a polite, private conversation with them rather than open scorn. Another possibility is they will find someplace else to sit - as Terry requested.

Walk-by and drive-by business is coveted!

"Lying over something like this. Stunning. "
I dislike when white lies which preserve folks feelings and calm are thrust in with bad lies. I do believe there is a difference. Anyone with family knows that. Many times we say what is best for our child or our dear loved ones butt. Its just polite.
Better a white lie than a confrontation in this case.

Dave O.

:asian:

 

[ATC]

"I have yet seen anyone kicked out be let back in. This even includes instructors that have been raised and taught by the owner/GM. "

The way this reads it almost sounds like they get tossed in large numbers??

In the begining when the gossip and parents were out of control they were being tossed in large numbers. 20 parents and students in one shot is a large number. Had to be this way to get a grip on things.

The problem was that the owner moved away to start up a second school. The school was left to be run by the black belts under him. Well they were young adults (18 - 20 years old) and really did not have any experience in running and manageing a business. The owner had to come back and make things right. Lots of people were dismissed, students, parents, and instructors.

Now from time to time there is that rare one that is asked to leave but not so much anymore.

However it happened again to the second school, to a smaller extent when he left again to open a 3rd school.

The original school is doing fine as the owners Nephew is running the school and he is just as strict as his Uncle. However the owner has to spend some time between schools 2 and 3 until those schools are running as he likes.

Only 3 instructors have been let go by the way.

 

[ATC]

Wow, you are really misinformed, or I'm simply not understanding you.

Does a Restaurant Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service to Specific Patrons?

No! The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions. For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having aprostedic leg.


But Aren’t Restaurants Considered Private Property?

Yes, however they are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status


So Are “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” Signs in Restaurants Legal?

Yes, however they still do not give a restaurant the power to refuse service on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. These signs also do not preclude a court from finding other arbitrary refusals of service to be discriminatory. Simply put, restaurants that carry a “Right to Refuse Service” sign are subject to the same laws as restaurants without one.

OK you are correct to an extent. However private clubs are still exempt.

Civil rights act of 1964 Title II
Outlawed discrimination in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private."

Most MA studios will fall under the definition of a private club and exempt.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:
The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."


The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.
As to a contract. You would have to written into the original document the fact that you can terminate service at any time without any cause. If you simply want to terminate and pay back, that must be in the original document or you would be subject to legal action.
__________________

I'm fairly certain these rules are being misapplied in this context; they are to protect against discrimination of protected minorities. To my knowledge, acting like an a$$ does not fall under these protections.

Most businesses (bars, restaurants, hotels, martial arts schools, etc) will reserve the right to deny service to individuals without having to provide a reason. If this is shown to have a pattern that falls under the above rules (won't serve homosexuals, for example) then it may be actionable, but I believe the burden of proof tends to lie on the individuals who were denied service.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Yet one more reason I will *NEVER* open a commercial school and why I don't believe MA schools should be run as a main source of income( yes, i know, i know, for some folks it's all they have, but the way it's been allowed to mutate over the last 20 years is ridiculous).

It is also why , were i in such a position to teach, owing to this, as well as owing to the material and the way i'd teach if I ever did, I wouldn't even *TALK* to a prospective student intil they were, at minumum, 18, more likely 21.

 

[Gorilla]

Martial Arts businesses are run many different ways. Some cater to the public and are very customer service oriented. Then others are more Martial "Military" Oriented some are Sport schools all very different ways of doing business. I have seen some schools that are a mix of the 3. If you are a parent in a school situation that does not fit your needs you should speak to the Master about it and find a mutual solution to your problem. You should never gossip, undermine, complain publicly or take matters into your own hands. The Master has a business to run and it is his right to run it as he sees fit. The success of his business will be the measuring stick for which he is judged not the parent in the waiting room. Parents stop acting like you own the place. You have a very important role get with you Master to help define that role but never I repeat never take matters into your own hands. If you can't find a proper solution then pay your bill and leave!