How to be Self-taught?

Status
Not open for further replies.

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
Hi Folks,

I've decided I want to take on martial arts as a learning project. I'm not looking to be a tournament level martial artist; and I do not feel that self-defense is a major concern - I live in a very safe, rural, community. So the idea of studying martial arts is purely for educational purposes. Now, I have several dvds from Contemporary Fighting Arts and I have a Body Opponent Bag. With the BoB I've been working on razing, knee strikes, and kicks for about 25 minutes a day; I intend to do some shadow boxing once the snow melts (I live in Vermont). I would like to find a training partner to spar and wrestle with but will tackle that when the time comes. So my question is, how might I continue to develop a solo training method?
 

Mephisto

Black Belt
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
594
Reaction score
234
Not possible. It's a bad idea, go get proper instruction. This topic has come up here before. Martial arts is not quilting, or running, you need instruction. I've met a few self taught martial artists, I was not impressed and they all overestimated their ability. Is there a reason you can't get proper instruction? I'd like to fly airplanes, even just small ones, I don't want to be a fighter pilot or anything. But something tells me I should get proper instructions.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,119
Reaction score
4,496
Location
England
razing, knee strikes, and kicks for about 25 minutes a day; I intend to do some shadow boxing once the snow melts

What's 'razing'? and shadow sparring can be done anywhere basically BUT you cannot teach yourself martial arts, you can teach yourself to play at it but you won't have correct stances, techniques nor any skill you will just be mimicking movements and badly at that. I'm sorry it's harsh but as Mephisto says, it's something you can't learn by yourself no matter how good you think videos are, you will end up injuring yourself or someone else
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
816
The usual problem is with small things you cannot notice yourself. Sometimes they may not be a big problem, others they will be big. You may not generate the correct power, or learn to block correctly, or not be able to use a move for another technique properly. The more things are not done optimally, the more chances for you to be injured in practice, of if you find yourself needing to use what you have learned on your own, in a real fight.

There are instructors that use videos, but also require the instructor to see what you have learned by video or live computer programs. I think we have several here, in different martial arts who do that. I know our own member, Instructor does. I think the Combat Hapkido does that as well.

That is why most discourage self learning of MA; too many things you will think you are doing correctly, but don't have the training and experience to realize are at best, just wrong, or at worst, dangerous.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
20,202
Reaction score
5,200
What's 'razing'? and shadow sparring can be done anywhere basically BUT you cannot teach yourself martial arts, you can teach yourself to play at it but you won't have correct stances, techniques nor any skill you will just be mimicking movements and badly at that. I'm sorry it's harsh but as Mephisto says, it's something you can't learn by yourself no matter how good you think videos are, you will end up injuring yourself or someone else

Raising knee strikes.
 
OP
marvelous65

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
Not possible. It's a bad idea, go get proper instruction. This topic has come up here before. Martial arts is not quilting, or running, you need instruction. I've met a few self taught martial artists, I was not impressed and they all overestimated their ability. Is there a reason you can't get proper instruction? I'd like to fly airplanes, even just small ones, I don't want to be a fighter pilot or anything. But something tells me I should get proper instructions.

Regarding your question as to why I choose not to get proper instruction I am attempting to be self-taught as part of a larger educational project for learning how to learn. This is for a column I'm writing on self-education for an online magazine. Also, while I recognize the shortcomings of being self-taught, I believe, with diligent practice, I can develop decent skills. I am self-taught chess and can play in tournaments; and I'm mostly self-taught writing and have been published in internationally circulated newspapers. So why not martial arts? If you can give me a very good reason why I could not expect to develop skills in martial arts as I have in those other disciplines I would seriously consider changing my mind. But, I also want to mention that I do have a background in Tae Kwon Do and wrestling - I'm not starting from scratch.
 
OP
marvelous65

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
What's 'razing'? and shadow sparring can be done anywhere basically BUT you cannot teach yourself martial arts, you can teach yourself to play at it but you won't have correct stances, techniques nor any skill you will just be mimicking movements and badly at that. I'm sorry it's harsh but as Mephisto says, it's something you can't learn by yourself no matter how good you think videos are, you will end up injuring yourself or someone else

Hey thanks for the response to my question. To answer your question of what razing is it is a pressure point fighting methodology which Sammy Franco has two instructional videos on (Widow Maker and Feral Fighting.) It is essentially the dirtiest way to fight that I can find and is so malicious that it should not be used in anything but self-defense against a criminal attack. It involves eye racks and gauges and is meant to be implemented at close quarter contact range.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,628
Reaction score
447
Location
Winnipeg MB
You can't... it doesn't even make sense to think you can. You might be able to learn some things, but it's not a single person activity, you need training partners to do much beyond what is really just martial arts related conditioning work. You get no sense of strategy, can't work defence at all, no sense of timing, rhythm, you can't see how different opponents react when you do certain things.

You might have fun, you might get a work out, but martial arts is not a solo-activity, it requires an opponent / training partner to learn anything of use.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,119
Reaction score
4,496
Location
England
What's 'razing'? and shadow sparring can be done anywhere basically BUT you cannot teach yourself martial arts, you can teach yourself to play at it but you won't have correct stances, techniques nor any skill you will just be mimicking movements and badly at that. I'm sorry it's harsh but as Mephisto says, it's something you can't learn by yourself no matter how good you think videos are, you will end up injuring yourself or someone else

Hey thanks for the response to my question. To answer your question of what razing is it is a pressure point fighting methodology which Sammy Franco has two instructional videos on (Widow Maker and Feral Fighting.) It is essentially the dirtiest way to fight that I can find and is so malicious that it should not be used in anything but self-defense against a criminal attack. It involves eye racks and gauges and is meant to be implemented at close quarter contact range.



I'm sorry but really you cannot learn fighting or martial arts from videos especially ones called that! I wouldn't believe the hype about 'the dirtiest fighting eva' either. Are they calling pressure point work 'razing'? It's nonsense I'm afraid and even if it weren't you definitely need an instructor to teach you pressure point work.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,119
Reaction score
4,496
Location
England
Raising knee strikes.


No it seems not....
razing is it is a pressure point fighting methodology which Sammy Franco has two instructional videos on (Widow Maker and Feral Fighting.) It is essentially the dirtiest way to fight that I can find and is so malicious that it should not be used in anything but self-defense against a criminal attack. It involves eye racks and gauges and is meant to be implemented at close quarter contact range.
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
13,422
Reaction score
2,852
Location
San Francisco
Not possible. It's a bad idea, go get proper instruction. This topic has come up here before. Martial arts is not quilting, or running, you need instruction. I've met a few self taught martial artists, I was not impressed and they all overestimated their ability. Is there a reason you can't get proper instruction? I'd like to fly airplanes, even just small ones, I don't want to be a fighter pilot or anything. But something tells me I should get proper instructions.

Regarding your question as to why I choose not to get proper instruction I am attempting to be self-taught as part of a larger educational project for learning how to learn. This is for a column I'm writing on self-education for an online magazine. Also, while I recognize the shortcomings of being self-taught, I believe, with diligent practice, I can develop decent skills. I am self-taught chess and can play in tournaments; and I'm mostly self-taught writing and have been published in internationally circulated newspapers. So why not martial arts? If you can give me a very good reason why I could not expect to develop skills in martial arts as I have in those other disciplines I would seriously consider changing my mind. But, I also want to mention that I do have a background in Tae Kwon Do and wrestling - I'm not starting from scratch.
Those other skills you mention, chess and writing, are largely intellectual. Yes, that kind of thing can be learned thru good resources such as books and video.

Martial arts are intellectual, but ultimately need to translate into physical. That's the difference, and that's where you need instruction to make sure you get the details correct, and you need classmates to work with, under knowledgeable supervision, to develope real workable skills. Otherwise you are just winging it.

If you learn chess from a book, you don't risk blowing your knee out during practice if you misunderstand a technique. And if you submit a piece of writing for publication you don't risk getting severely beaten or killed if your writing is junk.

Your background inTKD and wrestling may be an asset or may be a liability in this endeavor. It really depends on a lot of things. And if you intend to write about the experience, it is already clouded by that previous background. Any claim of success would be credited to that previous background and not to the self-teaching process.

You came here asking for advice from those who are experienced and knowledgeable on the topic. We are giving you our best advice. I suggest you heed that advice even if it's not what you wanted to hear. Otherwise, go thru with the process and then write an honest assessment, including all of the failures inherent in the very concept. But then again, how would you even know?
 
OP
marvelous65

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
You can't... it doesn't even make sense to think you can. You might be able to learn some things, but it's not a single person activity, you need training partners to do much beyond what is really just martial arts related conditioning work. You get no sense of strategy, can't work defence at all, no sense of timing, rhythm, you can't see how different opponents react when you do certain things.

You might have fun, you might get a work out, but martial arts is not a solo-activity, it requires an opponent / training partner to learn anything of use.

Ok. So my question isn't whether or not I can learn martial arts solo. I'd very much like to pick up a training/study partner to wrestle and spar with. I do want to avoid getting instruction at a dojo, however. That is all.
 
OP
marvelous65

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
Those other skills you mention, chess and writing, are largely intellectual. Yes, that kind of thing can be learned thru good resources such as books and video.

Martial arts are intellectual, but ultimately need to translate into physical. That's the difference, and that's where you need instruction to make sure you get the details correct, and you need classmates to work with, under knowledgeable supervision, to develope real workable skills. Otherwise you are just winging it.

If you learn chess from a book, you don't risk blowing your knee out during practice if you misunderstand a technique. And if you submit a piece of writing for publication you don't risk getting severely beaten or killed if your writing is junk.

Your background inTKD and wrestling may be an asset or may be a liability in this endeavor. It really depends on a lot of things. And if you intend to write about the experience, it is already clouded by that previous background. Any claim of success would be credited to that previous background and not to the self-teaching process.

You came here asking for advice from those who are experienced and knowledgeable on the topic. We are giving you our best advice. I suggest you heed that advice even if it's not what you wanted to hear. Otherwise, go thru with the process and then write an honest assessment, including all of the failures inherent in the very concept. But then again, how would you even know?
 
OP
marvelous65

marvelous65

Orange Belt
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
73
Reaction score
11
Location
Brattleboro, Vermont
Those other skills you mention, chess and writing, are largely intellectual. Yes, that kind of thing can be learned thru good resources such as books and video.

Martial arts are intellectual, but ultimately need to translate into physical. That's the difference, and that's where you need instruction to make sure you get the details correct, and you need classmates to work with, under knowledgeable supervision, to develope real workable skills. Otherwise you are just winging it.

If you learn chess from a book, you don't risk blowing your knee out during practice if you misunderstand a technique. And if you submit a piece of writing for publication you don't risk getting severely beaten or killed if your writing is junk.

Your background inTKD and wrestling may be an asset or may be a liability in this endeavor. It really depends on a lot of things. And if you intend to write about the experience, it is already clouded by that previous background. Any claim of success would be credited to that previous background and not to the self-teaching process.

You came here asking for advice from those who are experienced and knowledgeable on the topic. We are giving you our best advice. I suggest you heed that advice even if it's not what you wanted to hear. Otherwise, go thru with the process and then write an honest assessment, including all of the failures inherent in the very concept. But then again, how would you even know?

Here's the thing. You wouldn't tell someone that their fighting prowess would not develop from say doing 50 push-ups everyday. Ok. So my point in studying martial arts should be taken in a similar context. I'm not attempting to be highly skilled. I can already hold my own in a back yard brawl. So why wouldn't training on a BoB and doing regular wrestling with a friend in a park be somewhat beneficial. My question wasn't whether being self-taught was a good idea; my question was if any of you knew how to study martial arts independently. It seems none of you do.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
816
What's 'razing'? and shadow sparring can be done anywhere basically BUT you cannot teach yourself martial arts, you can teach yourself to play at it but you won't have correct stances, techniques nor any skill you will just be mimicking movements and badly at that. I'm sorry it's harsh but as Mephisto says, it's something you can't learn by yourself no matter how good you think videos are, you will end up injuring yourself or someone else

Hey thanks for the response to my question. To answer your question of what razing is it is a pressure point fighting methodology which Sammy Franco has two instructional videos on (Widow Maker and Feral Fighting.) It is essentially the dirtiest way to fight that I can find and is so malicious that it should not be used in anything but self-defense against a criminal attack. It involves eye racks and gauges and is meant to be implemented at close quarter contact range.

In your post #6, you give us an explanation of why you wish to self teach yourself martial arts. May I suggest you need to self teach yourself for at least three years. Then go as many tournaments as you can survive, to see if it really worked. Getting into tournaments should seem the exact proper thing to do since you already have tested yourself in chess and writing (I have to believe you got/get a lot of rejections slips on your way to success?). If you want to save bruises, at the end of the three years, go to a TKD school and inform the instructor you are ready to test for BB, encouraging him to let you by promising to pay twice the testing fee in advance. See how that works out.

The above is a little facetious, but not much. If you throw a punch, how will you know your wrist is straight, both vertically and horizontally? At what point will you learn how it "feels" when your wrist is straight? Do you know what can happen if you throw and connect with a powerful punch and your wrist isn't straight? At what point in self teaching yourself will you learn how to move successfully into a punch, moving to the side and grabbing it to successfully twist it, or will you just walk into the first punch thrown at you? your examples of learning chess and writing just simply don't apply to learning fighting of any kind, especially martial arts. Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear, but you did ask. None of us are trying to put you down personally, but simply to answer your question in a meaningful way. But don't your think it ironic that you ask your question and three belted MA give you the same answer, which you, with no apparent belting simply don't accept?

One last thing, razing? I haven't heard that term either (again, belted MA don't seem to know it). It must be a term invented by the Sammy Franco you mention. Nor is it unique to him. Other martial arts, including the Hapkido I am belted in, use gouges and pressure points including lethal point strikes, sudden neck twists, taking a knife away and slicing your opponent long and deep, etc. And what other type of attack would there be than criminal, unless you are in a tourney/sparring match?
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,119
Reaction score
4,496
Location
England
You wouldn't tell someone that their fighting prowess would not develop from say doing 50 push-ups everyday.

I would, why wouldn't I? They'd be good at press ups but there's nothing there to teach them how to fight or to get better, they'd just get a bit fitter and a bit stronger which is no use if they can't fight anyway.
 

Instructor

Master Black Belt
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
175
Location
Gloucester, VA
Look I teach people at home. I've been instructing for two decades. These people are highly motivated and they have a training partner that they work with several hours a week. Even with me (a real live teacher), a dedicated training partner, and tons of learning resources that we provide. It is still a very hard slog for them. I tell people all the time, find yourself a good local teacher, it's easier.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
816
...
It seems none of you do.

I think that is pretty accurate, just not in the way you intend it. We aren't trying to give you a hard time, just trying to be honest. Remember, you are the one who asked, and you should not be too dismissive of the answers. If you disagree, perhaps it would be beneficial for you to ask more pertinent and specific questions
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,461
Reaction score
730
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
But if you insist on thinking you can learn without instruction watch your you tube and read your books and then when your ready I'll give you the names of some bars and maybe even people where you can go in Keene or a few towns near you to see if you have learned anything of value. No these are not nice people but they will happily show you that book and video learning alone is not the way to go just for their own entertainment.
;)

Take the advice of those who have spend years studying and have seen many who tried to learn from books. Find something else to write your paper about because to know if your training works you are going to have to test it sometime otherwise all your self practice is just theory
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Discussions

Top