How many of you are currently CPR certified, and does your school/dojo require it ?

[Dragon5560]

It is 2022 and at least NYS requires all Martial Arts Instructors need to be CPR certified and require AED's in all schools with over 500 students on the rolls. Who here is currently CPR certified and who has a legally owned AED (With all the required paperwork and Maintenance Programs in place) ?

 

[skribs]

I am CPR and "first aid" certified. I honestly don't see what it has to do with martial arts.

The first aid had nothing to do with what you would typically think of as first aid, such as how to dress wounds, check for serious injuries, wrap joints that are sprained, etc. It was more related to the CPR class.

CPR and AEDs are nice to have. But, in all my years of doing martial arts, I've only ever seen one person need immediate medical attention for a heart attack. This was a teenager who was born with a bad heart, and wasn't expected to live past 2 years old. This happened at a tournament. My instructor's day job was a nurse at a hospital, and there was medical staff there. Even with all of those going in his favor, the student did not survive.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It is 2022 and at least NYS requires all Martial Arts Instructors need to be CPR certified and require AED's in all schools with over 500 students on the rolls.

Is this a new law? Do you have a reference for it? I have not heard of it in the past either as a martial arts instructor or mentioned in CPR classes. A google search is not finding anything saying that, and there's no real regulation for martial arts instructors in NYS in general to my knowledge.

 

[Dragon5560]

I am CPR and "first aid" certified. I honestly don't see what it has to do with martial arts.

The first aid had nothing to do with what you would typically think of as first aid, such as how to dress wounds, check for serious injuries, wrap joints that are sprained, etc. It was more related to the CPR class.

CPR and AEDs are nice to have. But, in all my years of doing martial arts, I've only ever seen one person need immediate medical attention for a heart attack. This was a teenager who was born with a bad heart, and wasn't expected to live past 2 years old. This happened at a tournament. My instructor's day job was a nurse at a hospital, and there was medical staff there. Even with all of those going in his favor, the student did not survive.

Thank you for your honest reply. I honor you for being trained up in these lifesaving skills and hope you remain current and recertify at least every year. First and foremost, I am a 40-year student of various Martial Arts, a 10-year Marine Corps combat veteran, and am coming up on 20 years as an active Emergency Medical provider. Please don't get me wrong here, I say these things not to impress you at all, but to impress upon you, that I have seen, horrible tragedies, participated in some gruesome and challenging environments. et, etc Blah, Blah, Blah I understand.......
Some thoughts to ponder here.
1) We are all martial arts students here, we learn how to defend ourselves and others, we unilaterally should also how to save people's lives as well. This is not only a skill for the Dojo, but also a lifesaving skill that can be used outside of the dojo as well. Just like our Martial Arts skills.
2) Learning CPR/AED/First Aid, you will be the first to recognize a medical emergency, which is critical in saving lives in the "Chain of Survival", Who knows, it could be the life of loved one you save. Just like if you ever have to use our training to save the life of a loved one from an imminent assault, or violent intervention.
3) You are now part of unfortunately for now, a small group of civilian First Responders who have the willingness to dedicate their own personal time to learn a valuable skill.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I am extremely passionate about both Martial Arts and Life Saving knowledge, skills and abilities.

 

[Dragon5560]

Is this a new law? Do you have a reference for it? I have not heard of it in the past either as a martial arts instructor or mentioned in CPR classes. A google search is not finding anything saying that, and there's no real regulation for martial arts instructors in NYS in general to my knowledge.

It is in fact not new at all. This herein lies the biggest challenge; Google search does not identify the law specifically because it is buried in General Business 627-A and Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law, I have posted them below for your convenience.


Part 1

New York General Business Law​

Sec. 627-A
Automated External Defibrillator Requirements​

1.​

Every health club as defined under paragraph b of subdivision one of section three thousand-d of the public health law whose membership is five hundred persons or more shall have on the premises at least one automated external defibrillator and shall have in attendance, at all times during staffed business hours, at least one individual performing employment or individual acting as an authorized volunteer who holds a valid certification of completion of a course in the study of the operation of AEDs and a valid certification of the completion of a course in the training of cardiopulmonary resuscitation provided by a nationally recognized organization or association.

2.​

Health clubs and staff pursuant to subdivision one of this section shall be deemed a “public access defibrillation provider” as defined in paragraph (c) of subdivision one of section three thousand-b of the public health law and shall be subject to the requirements and limitation of such section.

3.​

Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law Department of State


Pursuant to sections three thousand-a and three thousand-b of the public health law, any public access defibrillation provider, or any employee or other agent of the provider who, in accordance with the provisions of this section, voluntarily and without expectation of monetary compensation renders emergency medical or first aid treatment using an AED which has been made available pursuant to this section, to a person who is unconscious, ill or injured, shall be liable only pursuant to section three thousand-a of the public health law.

2. “Health club” as used in this article means any person, firm, corporation, partnership, unincorporated association, or other business enterprise offering instruction, training or assistance or the facilities for the preservation, maintenance, encouragement or development of physical fitness or well-being. Such term shall include but shall not be limited to health spas, sports, tennis, racquet ball, platform tennis and health clubs, figure salons, health studios, gymnasiums, weight control studios, martial arts and self-defense schools or any other similar course of physical training


I hope this helps. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to me, I have extensive knowledge in this area.

Thank You

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It is in fact not new at all. This herein lies the biggest challenge; Google search does not identify the law specifically because it is buried in General Business 627-A and Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law, I have posted them below for your convenience.


Part 1

New York General Business Law​

Sec. 627-A​

Automated External Defibrillator Requirements​

1.​

Every health club as defined under paragraph b of subdivision one of section three thousand-d of the public health law whose membership is five hundred persons or more shall have on the premises at least one automated external defibrillator and shall have in attendance, at all times during staffed business hours, at least one individual performing employment or individual acting as an authorized volunteer who holds a valid certification of completion of a course in the study of the operation of AEDs and a valid certification of the completion of a course in the training of cardiopulmonary resuscitation provided by a nationally recognized organization or association.

2.​

Health clubs and staff pursuant to subdivision one of this section shall be deemed a “public access defibrillation provider” as defined in paragraph (c) of subdivision one of section three thousand-b of the public health law and shall be subject to the requirements and limitation of such section.

3.​

Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law Department of State


Pursuant to sections three thousand-a and three thousand-b of the public health law, any public access defibrillation provider, or any employee or other agent of the provider who, in accordance with the provisions of this section, voluntarily and without expectation of monetary compensation renders emergency medical or first aid treatment using an AED which has been made available pursuant to this section, to a person who is unconscious, ill or injured, shall be liable only pursuant to section three thousand-a of the public health law.

2. “Health club” as used in this article means any person, firm, corporation, partnership, unincorporated association, or other business enterprise offering instruction, training or assistance or the facilities for the preservation, maintenance, encouragement or development of physical fitness or well-being. Such term shall include but shall not be limited to health spas, sports, tennis, racquet ball, platform tennis and health clubs, figure salons, health studios, gymnasiums, weight control studios, martial arts and self-defense schools or any other similar course of physical training


I hope this helps. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to me, I have extensive knowledge in this area.

Thank You

If I'm reading that correctly, the rule only applies to health clubs (including martial arts schools) with memberships of 500+. I don't know if I've ever attended a martial arts school with over 500 students.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It is in fact not new at all. This herein lies the biggest challenge; Google search does not identify the law specifically because it is buried in General Business 627-A and Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law, I have posted them below for your convenience.


Part 1

New York General Business Law​

Sec. 627-A​

Automated External Defibrillator Requirements​

1.​

Every health club as defined under paragraph b of subdivision one of section three thousand-d of the public health law whose membership is five hundred persons or more shall have on the premises at least one automated external defibrillator and shall have in attendance, at all times during staffed business hours, at least one individual performing employment or individual acting as an authorized volunteer who holds a valid certification of completion of a course in the study of the operation of AEDs and a valid certification of the completion of a course in the training of cardiopulmonary resuscitation provided by a nationally recognized organization or association.

2.​

Health clubs and staff pursuant to subdivision one of this section shall be deemed a “public access defibrillation provider” as defined in paragraph (c) of subdivision one of section three thousand-b of the public health law and shall be subject to the requirements and limitation of such section.

3.​

Health Club Services Article 30, General Business Law Department of State


Pursuant to sections three thousand-a and three thousand-b of the public health law, any public access defibrillation provider, or any employee or other agent of the provider who, in accordance with the provisions of this section, voluntarily and without expectation of monetary compensation renders emergency medical or first aid treatment using an AED which has been made available pursuant to this section, to a person who is unconscious, ill or injured, shall be liable only pursuant to section three thousand-a of the public health law.

2. “Health club” as used in this article means any person, firm, corporation, partnership, unincorporated association, or other business enterprise offering instruction, training or assistance or the facilities for the preservation, maintenance, encouragement or development of physical fitness or well-being. Such term shall include but shall not be limited to health spas, sports, tennis, racquet ball, platform tennis and health clubs, figure salons, health studios, gymnasiums, weight control studios, martial arts and self-defense schools or any other similar course of physical training


I hope this helps. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to me, I have extensive knowledge in this area.

Thank You

That does. Looks like it would only affect very large dojos (I don't think I've ever attended one with 500 or more people) which is why it wasn't relevant to me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Plus one on never having been to a school large enough to care about this.

 

[skribs]

Thank you for your honest reply. I honor you for being trained up in these lifesaving skills and hope you remain current and recertify at least every year. First and foremost, I am a 40-year student of various Martial Arts, a 10-year Marine Corps combat veteran, and am coming up on 20 years as an active Emergency Medical provider. Please don't get me wrong here, I say these things not to impress you at all, but to impress upon you, that I have seen, horrible tragedies, participated in some gruesome and challenging environments. et, etc Blah, Blah, Blah I understand.......
Some thoughts to ponder here.
1) We are all martial arts students here, we learn how to defend ourselves and others, we unilaterally should also how to save people's lives as well. This is not only a skill for the Dojo, but also a lifesaving skill that can be used outside of the dojo as well. Just like our Martial Arts skills.
2) Learning CPR/AED/First Aid, you will be the first to recognize a medical emergency, which is critical in saving lives in the "Chain of Survival", Who knows, it could be the life of loved one you save. Just like if you ever have to use our training to save the life of a loved one from an imminent assault, or violent intervention.
3) You are now part of unfortunately for now, a small group of civilian First Responders who have the willingness to dedicate their own personal time to learn a valuable skill.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I am extremely passionate about both Martial Arts and Life Saving knowledge, skills and abilities.

I'm merely saying there's a difference between beneficial and necessary.

I wouldn't look down on a school for having CPR certifications. I would look down on a government policy requiring everyone to have CPR certification, when I haven't really seen the need for it in martial arts.

 

[Dragon5560]

If I'm reading that correctly, the rule only applies to health clubs (including martial arts schools) with memberships of 500+. I don't know if I've ever attended a martial arts school with over 500 students.

Yes Sir, you are reading this correctly. With Memberships of 500 plus. I have heard rumblings of NYS Government trying to change that law to a much lower number. I will keep you posted if there is any movement or passage of any oversight.

 

[Dragon5560]

I'm merely saying there's a difference between beneficial and necessary.

I wouldn't look down on a school for having CPR certifications. I would look down on a government policy requiring everyone to have CPR certification, when I haven't really seen the need for it in martial arts.

I understand your point of beneficial and necessary. Think of it like this, Why do you have a fire extinguisher ? Just in case right, same thing goes for CPR/AED/First Aid Training. I do firmly agree with your government policy statement though. Do you remember the story of the little girl on the beach being scolded by the old man ? She was putting new born, baby turtles back in the ocean by hand, one by one. The old man scolded her saying "There are hundreds maybe thousands of turtles on this beach, you putting one back at a time is not going to make a difference". The little girl said with tears in her eyes "It mattered to this one, and the all the others I put pack in the ocean"
The difference one person can make in helping someone, can echo through eternity.
Why are you CPR/AED/First Aid trained ?

 

[J. Pickard]

We require all head instructors be certified and that at least one certified individual be in the building at all times during business hours. We have a few nurses and first responders and one doctor that are full time students as well so that helps. We do not have an AED in our school anymore, but we always have a first responder there with one in his truck.

 

[Jared Traveler]

CPR certified yes. And certified in Tactical Combat Casualty Care, just In case a real Kung Fu fight breaks out.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We require all head instructors be certified and that at least one certified individual be in the building at all times during business hours. We have a few nurses and first responders and one doctor that are full time students as well so that helps. We do not have an AED in our school anymore, but we always have a first responder there with one in his truck.

Just a cautionary note.
Most nurses and Drs don't know diddly about resuscitation. If they're not ER/Flight/ICU, they will probably have a difficult time remembering the last time they were actually in a resuscitation.

 

[J. Pickard]

Just a cautionary note.
Most nurses and Drs don't know diddly about resuscitation. If they're not ER/Flight/ICU, they will probably have a difficult time remembering the last time they were actually in a resuscitation.

The nurses are ER nurses, not sure of the doc. Either way we always have someone certified on the floor.

 

[Dragon5560]

We require all head instructors be certified and that at least one certified individual be in the building at all times during business hours. We have a few nurses and first responders and one doctor that are full time students as well so that helps. We do not have an AED in our school anymore, but we always have a first responder there with one in his truck.

That is excellent news Where do you get your training and which organization do you use ? American Heart Association, American Red Cross, ASHI or any other ?

 

[Dragon5560]

The nurses are ER nurses, not sure of the doc. Either way we always have someone certified on the floor.

While there is some truth to your statement, ER nurses are more exposed to CPR.

 

[Dragon5560]

Just a cautionary note.
Most nurses and Drs don't know diddly about resuscitation. If they're not ER/Flight/ICU, they will probably have a difficult time remembering the last time they were actually in a resuscitation.

@Dirty Dog That is unfortunately by and large a true statement. That's why its important to learn these skills.

 

[Dragon5560]

That does. Looks like it would only affect very large dojos (I don't think I've ever attended one with 500 or more people) which is why it wasn't relevant to me.

I understand your thought process here, however it is more about being Pro-active vs reactive The law's are generalized here, if, lets say the law stated 100 students or more would you still be inclined to do it just because its a law ?

 

[Dirty Dog]

While there is some truth to your statement, ER nurses are more exposed to CPR.

Actually, the people who do CPR the most are the ED techs.

@Dirty Dog That is unfortunately by and large a true statement. That's why its important to learn these skills.

It's been my experience that untrained bystander CPR is every bit as effective as CPR performed by someone who did a class. The mortality rate for out of hospital arrests is about 90%. For in-hospital arrests, it's about 75%.

Those are not great numbers, unless you bear in mind that the mortality rate without intervention is 100%.