How many of you are currently CPR certified, and does your school/dojo require it ?

[Dragon5560]

Actually, the people who do CPR the most are the ED techs.

It's been my experience that untrained bystander CPR is every bit as effective as CPR performed by someone who did a class. The mortality rate for out of hospital arrests is about 90%. For in-hospital arrests, it's about 75%.

Those are not great numbers, unless you bear in mind that the mortality rate without intervention is 100%.

It all depends of your location and Hospital SOP/Protocols. NYS Out of Hospital SCA survival rate is around 5% and that is mainly due to not enough people/bystanders either knowing how to do CPR or not willing to get involved. Coupled with the fact that the second step in the chain of survival is Early Defibrillation, there are not enough P.A.D. available. We have a very large concentrated population in NYC which lends itself to extended response times, through dense traffic, multiple one way streets, a pedestrian population that does not yield to emergency vehicles, as well as multi level dwellings which either have walk up stairs or congested and barely working elevators. Now, in suburbia it is different, and we also have rural emergency response areas which make call to contact times extended as well as transport times.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I understand your thought process here, however it is more about being Pro-active vs reactive The law's are generalized here, if, lets say the law stated 100 students or more would you still be inclined to do it just because its a law ?

I actually do remain always CPR certified. BUt yes, I'd be more likely to do it if I was an instructor and the law required it, and more likely to encourage other instructors to do the same.
Getting CPR certified, and potentially shouldering that responsibility if something happens, is a personal choice. The law is not.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It is 2022 and at least NYS requires all Martial Arts Instructors need to be CPR certified and require AED's in all schools with over 500 students on the rolls. Who here is currently CPR certified and who has a legally owned AED (With all the required paperwork and Maintenance Programs in place) ?

I am not, our dojo does not have an an AED. I have had CPR certification in the past, but it's long since expired. I think it would be good for me to get certified in CPR again, perhaps I will make that a priority for 2023. But we don't require it and the state of Michigan doesn't require either, as far as I know.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It's been quite a few years since I let my CPR certification lapse, but I went through the training enough times that I still clearly remember what I was taught.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It's been quite a few years since I let my CPR certification lapse, but I went through the training enough times that I still clearly remember what I was taught.

It's been so many years for me that I understand the training has changed. I am told that they no longer teach chest compressions interposed with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation for example.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's been so many years for me that I understand the training has changed. I am told that they no longer teach chest compressions interposed with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation for example.

Not yet. Rescue breathing is still taught as part of CPR, but a number of good studies have shown that CPR with rescue breathing fails the risk/benefit evaluation. Much of the rest of the world has gone to compressions only.

Cardiac output during CPR is only about 25% of what it is normally. And there is enough air moved from compressions to oxygenate that small amount of blood reasonably well. Now consider how much of that air is going into the stomach. Which leads to gastric distention. Which leads to vomiting. And aspiration. Which makes it even more difficult to ventilate them...

Additionally, it takes time to reach even that low 25% output. And every time you stop CPR, you're starting over from scratch.

Because of these (and other) factors, compression only CPR is becoming accepted as at LEAST as effective as compressions with rescue breathing.

I believe that EMS will stop using Bag-Valve Masks, eventually, and do compression only CPR until a definitive airway can be placed.

 

[frank raud]

. But, in all my years of doing martial arts, I've only ever seen one person need immediate medical attention for a heart attack.

I too, have only seen one person need immediate medical attention for a heart attack. Unfortunately, he did not receive it in time, and died on the mats. His son was the instructor on the mats at that time.

 

[frank raud]

Not yet. Rescue breathing is still taught as part of CPR, but a number of good studies have shown that CPR with rescue breathing fails the risk/benefit evaluation. Much of the rest of the world has gone to compressions only.

I renewed my first aid and CPR in September. The CPR was compression only (I'm in Canada). One thing that was definitely different, and due to COVID protocols, is we practice slings and compression bandage, tourniquets, etc. on ourselves, not a partner. Also noticed, no doughnut bandages to protect a exposed bone or object sticking out of a body.

 

[Buka]

It's been quite a few years since I let my CPR certification lapse, but I went through the training enough times that I still clearly remember what I was taught.

I hear ya, Tony. I wish I could remember. I've been certified probably fifty times. But the numbers kept changing over the years. I'm not concerned, I know what to do. I'm just wondering if there's been any changes in the last three years.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I renewed my first aid and CPR in September. The CPR was compression only (I'm in Canada). One thing that was definitely different, and due to COVID protocols, is we practice slings and compression bandage, tourniquets, etc. on ourselves, not a partner. Also noticed, no doughnut bandages to protect a exposed bone or object sticking out of a body.

Don't bother with donut bandages. Just don't touch it at all.

And as I said, compression-only CPR will eventually be the global standard. It just isn't yet.

I hear ya, Tony. I wish I could remember. I've been certified probably fifty times. But the numbers kept changing over the years. I'm not concerned, I know what to do. I'm just wondering if there's been any changes in the last three years.

Ultimately, CPR isn't difficult. Ideally, you compress deeply about 100 times a minute. Sing "Staying Alive" or (more accurately) "Another One Bites the Dust" in your head and your speed will be fine.

If you don't break a rib or two on the first compression, you're probably not compressing deeply enough.

Yes, there's lots of fine tuning that can be done, as with anything. But if you don't do CPR regularly, you're not likely to retain those tiny details. Anything you do will be better than nothing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is 2022 and at least NYS requires all Martial Arts Instructors need to be CPR certified and require AED's in all schools with over 500 students on the rolls. Who here is currently CPR certified and who has a legally owned AED (With all the required paperwork and Maintenance Programs in place) ?

The association I ranked in required some old (outdated) first aid for BB. I changed that to Red Cross first aid and CPR, but never had a student reach that level.

Personally, I’m WFR (wilderness first responder) certified. That covers all basic first aid and a bit more. I was trained in CPR and FA for a volunteer position not that long ago, but not certified.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not yet. Rescue breathing is still taught as part of CPR, but a number of good studies have shown that CPR with rescue breathing fails the risk/benefit evaluation. Much of the rest of the world has gone to compressions only.

Cardiac output during CPR is only about 25% of what it is normally. And there is enough air moved from compressions to oxygenate that small amount of blood reasonably well. Now consider how much of that air is going into the stomach. Which leads to gastric distention. Which leads to vomiting. And aspiration. Which makes it even more difficult to ventilate them...

Additionally, it takes time to reach even that low 25% output. And every time you stop CPR, you're starting over from scratch.

Because of these (and other) factors, compression only CPR is becoming accepted as at LEAST as effective as compressions with rescue breathing.

I believe that EMS will stop using Bag-Valve Masks, eventually, and do compression only CPR until a definitive airway can be placed.

My WFR training taught both. Solo was compressions only, and breaths were added if another rescuer is available.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Don't bother with donut bandages. Just don't touch it at all.

And as I said, compression-only CPR will eventually be the global standard. It just isn't yet.

Ultimately, CPR isn't difficult. Ideally, you compress deeply about 100 times a minute. Sing "Staying Alive" or (more accurately) "Another One Bites the Dust" in your head and your speed will be fine.

If you don't break a rib or two on the first compression, you're probably not compressing deeply enough.

Yes, there's lots of fine tuning that can be done, as with anything. But if you don't do CPR regularly, you're not likely to retain those tiny details. Anything you do will be better than nothing.

Ugh 😣 that's a terrible feeling when you crush their sternum. Been there done that. It's a little scary when it happens, you pause and look around at everyone, feeling guilty like you committed a crime.

 

[Dirty Dog]

My WFR training taught both. Solo was compressions only, and breaths were added if another rescuer is available.

That'll eventually go away. Rescue breathing has a very high chance of leading to distention, eruption, and aspiration.

 

[jks9199]

Just a cautionary note.
Most nurses and Drs don't know diddly about resuscitation. If they're not ER/Flight/ICU, they will probably have a difficult time remembering the last time they were actually in a resuscitation.

This is something I see with lawyers, medical types (MD, RN, LPN, etc), and even skilled trades like contractors. The assumption that someone "in the field" is the same for any situation. To pick on nurses -- lots of them are great at giving shots, checking vitals, etc. Many are not extensively practiced in field treatment like an EMT. If I ask a professional for assitance in a situation, I always allow them room to back out gracefully if it's out of their realm of experience or real expertise. A plastic surgeon may be great at repairing the wound -- but not know didly about keeping the guy from bleeding out before they get to the surgical room. A great wills lawyer is often lost in the courtroom...

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is something I see with lawyers, medical types (MD, RN, LPN, etc), and even skilled trades like contractors. The assumption that someone "in the field" is the same for any situation.

Agree completely. An example is Good Samaritan laws. In general, if you stop at, say, a car crash and try to render aid, you're immune to civil suits if your attempt doesn't help, or makes things worse, so long as you were doing your best to help.

Those laws generally do not apply to EMTs/Medics/Nurses/Drs. And it has always struck me as more than a little unfair that an LPN who works in a nursing home is held to the same standard as me.

But Foot in Mouth disease is also real... A new medic on one of our area ambulance services told a guy at a crash to get out of the way, because although he had reduced a femur fracture (and in doing so restored blood flow to the persons foot...) he was "doing it wrong". The person the medic reprimanded is the head of Trauma Surgery here...

 

[Buka]

Don't bother with donut bandages. Just don't touch it at all.

And as I said, compression-only CPR will eventually be the global standard. It just isn't yet.

Ultimately, CPR isn't difficult. Ideally, you compress deeply about 100 times a minute. Sing "Staying Alive" or (more accurately) "Another One Bites the Dust" in your head and your speed will be fine.

If you don't break a rib or two on the first compression, you're probably not compressing deeply enough.

Yes, there's lots of fine tuning that can be done, as with anything. But if you don't do CPR regularly, you're not likely to retain those tiny details. Anything you do will be better than nothing.

I really like the idea of singing in your head. Thanks.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I really like the idea of singing in your head. Thanks.

That's actually something the AHA uses to teach laypeople. They only offer the one song choice though...

 

[jks9199]

Agree completely. An example is Good Samaritan laws. In general, if you stop at, say, a car crash and try to render aid, you're immune to civil suits if your attempt doesn't help, or makes things worse, so long as you were doing your best to help.

Those laws generally do not apply to EMTs/Medics/Nurses/Drs. And it has always struck me as more than a little unfair that an LPN who works in a nursing home is held to the same standard as me.

But Foot in Mouth disease is also real... A new medic on one of our area ambulance services told a guy at a crash to get out of the way, because although he had reduced a femur fracture (and in doing so restored blood flow to the persons foot...) he was "doing it wrong". The person the medic reprimanded is the head of Trauma Surgery here...

Honestly -- the doc might have been wrong, either in the standards of care for the EMT service, or simply for being in the field rather than ER/surgery.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That'll eventually go away. Rescue breathing has a very high chance of leading to distention, eruption, and aspiration.

I'll keep that in mind for my own information, at least. And it does answer the question for me whether it's worth learning to use a bag and get one for my larger kit.