How many fights have you been in, so far, in your life?

[Tony]

Well I haven't been in a fight since I was 17, (proud to say) as I try to avoid any risk of actually getting into any conflict. The last time I was involved in an altercation was when some guy had me in a rear bear hug so I head butted him and he let go. I just walked away because there was no way I was going to be drawn into some futile macho bs!
But I find my problem is that I am still a door mat evne though I have been practising Kung fu for 6 years now. Once when I was at a Nightclub I was standing by some chairs and this guy rudely gestured for me to move and rather then starting something I knew I couldn't finish I moved. But if it had been some one who was really big, 6'7 and build like a brick sh@t house then I don't think he would have thought twice about doing that. I'm only 5'7" so I guess I look pretty weedy and give out these subconscious signals that idiots like him can push me round and get away with it because they know I'm the kind of guy who won't fight back. It realy ticks me off but then again the alternative isn't much better, getting into a fight and not knowing how good my skills would be. Thinking back I wished I had stood my ground and said to him that if he wanted me to move he would have to ask me!

 

[7starmantis]

Well I haven't been in a fight since I was 17, (proud to say) as I try to avoid any risk of actually getting into any conflict. The last time I was involved in an altercation was when some guy had me in a rear bear hug so I head butted him and he let go. I just walked away because there was no way I was going to be drawn into some futile macho bs!
But I find my problem is that I am still a door mat evne though I have been practising Kung fu for 6 years now. Once when I was at a Nightclub I was standing by some chairs and this guy rudely gestured for me to move and rather then starting something I knew I couldn't finish I moved. But if it had been some one who was really big, 6'7 and build like a brick sh@t house then I don't think he would have thought twice about doing that. I'm only 5'7" so I guess I look pretty weedy and give out these subconscious signals that idiots like him can push me round and get away with it because they know I'm the kind of guy who won't fight back. It realy ticks me off but then again the alternative isn't much better, getting into a fight and not knowing how good my skills would be. Thinking back I wished I had stood my ground and said to him that if he wanted me to move he would have to ask me!

I don't know Tony, I think maybe you showed true skill by moving and not letting yourself stay and posibly get into a fight. Regardless of skill level once a fight starts your chances of getting hurt skyrocket. Therefore, to stay out of a fight regardless of what it takes to do so will keep your chances of getting hurt pretty minimal. I think staying and telling him no would be against what your learning in martial arts and so I think you very much used your skill in that scenario.

7sm

 

[Tony]

Hi 7*

Nice to hear from you again! thanks for what you just said! That makes me feel a lot better! I guess sometimes pride can come at such a high price. You hear of so many stories of people ending up in wheel chairs for life because of fights they have become involved in. I guess it could have turned out worst and I really don't need the added problems of Police and such. But at the same time that idiot should have been taught some manners.
I have never had to use what I have been taught but at the same time I have no idea if it would work in a real life encounter! I try to get as much sparring in class as I can but have no interest in winning medals. I have taken some good shots of other people but its only made me more determined not to let them get the better of me!
The thing is I have always been very passive, especially in school because I never fought back for fear of punishment from the teachers, silly considering I had every right to defend myself and to hell with the teachers.
I have a friend, who I think I may have mentioned who is a bit of a hothead and has been in many fights and now that he trains in Taekwondo is a great concern because he seems to be very aggresive in his sparring, to the point his instructor has sometimes stopped him. I remember one time he wnated to spar with me when we at my friend's house but I refused, because to tell you the truth I was scared, because I don't know what he is capable of and how far he would have taken it.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Tony,

I have a friend who is quite similar to the friend you mention. Not a hothead, but very arrogant and thinks Tae Kwon Do is for causing pain to people. Has alienated many people in his life because of his arrogance and attitude. Ironically, we trained together and hold the same rank. The similarities end there. Has gotten into several fights because he won't walk away and constantly feels the need to prove himself. He is currently in Korea right now teaching English where he can piss off the Koreans

 

[terryl965]

I have been involve in MA for over 40 yrs and only been in 3 actual fights, and that is because they would not let me walk away. MA is not meant for you to automaticly have a fight everytime someone's say's something to you!!! Some people feel that always have to prove there manhood or womanhood on a daily basis... God Bless America

 

[Tony]

Tony,

I have a friend who is quite similar to the friend you mention. Not a hothead, but very arrogant and thinks Tae Kwon Do is for causing pain to people. Has alienated many people in his life because of his arrogance and attitude. Ironically, we trained together and hold the same rank. The similarities end there. Has gotten into several fights because he won't walk away and constantly feels the need to prove himself. He is currently in Korea right now teaching English where he can piss off the Koreans

Hi Michigan

Isn't it funny people like this are actually allowed to train in any Martial Art and they can get to the rank of black belt and still they have not changed. They still have not learnt any humility. I am lucky in that in my Kung Fu class people like this are soon weeded out because they will find the training difficult or because they are not interested in the ideology.

 

[MichiganTKD]

You like to think that as they progress and go through the sweat, blood, pain, and frustration, they understand that fighting is not usually necessary. Unfortunately, my friend has issues that MA has been unable to help him with. For one, his dad always made it clear he thought Tae Kwon Do was a waste of time. I think he has always felt this need to prove himself to his dad by showing that he can win fights. It never occured to him to say "You know, I don't care what my dad thinks."
Also, he has a definite alcohol problem which has clouded his judgement over the years.
I shouldn't pick on just him though. I've known many students and black belts over the years who were not exactly role models. I guess it's true: MA students come in all different flavors. Everyone has their own motivation for practicing. His happens to be causing pain.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Well I haven't been in a fight since I was 17, (proud to say) as I try to avoid any risk of actually getting into any conflict. The last time I was involved in an altercation was when some guy had me in a rear bear hug so I head butted him and he let go. I just walked away because there was no way I was going to be drawn into some futile macho bs!
But I find my problem is that I am still a door mat evne though I have been practising Kung fu for 6 years now. Once when I was at a Nightclub I was standing by some chairs and this guy rudely gestured for me to move and rather then starting something I knew I couldn't finish I moved. But if it had been some one who was really big, 6'7 and build like a brick sh@t house then I don't think he would have thought twice about doing that. I'm only 5'7" so I guess I look pretty weedy and give out these subconscious signals that idiots like him can push me round and get away with it because they know I'm the kind of guy who won't fight back. It realy ticks me off but then again the alternative isn't much better, getting into a fight and not knowing how good my skills would be. Thinking back I wished I had stood my ground and said to him that if he wanted me to move he would have to ask me!

You're healthy with all of your teeth in your mouth. You won.

 

[Tony]

Its quite amazing when I think of all the idiots I could have hurt badly but didn't because of this self control I had! I remember working somewhere where I happened to be sat next to this immature idiot. He was always talking behind people's backs but at the same time he was one of those people who liked to have fun while he worked. I remember while I was leaving the room to go to the toilet I caught what he said about me! I guess he thought he was safe enough and I wouldn't be able to hear him. I went to the toilet without stopping and I was annoyed but whenI returned I just sat down and continued with my work! What I really wanted to do was bang his head against the wall until the wall was a nice shade of blood red. But I guess I'm not that kind of person and besides I needed the money. Anyone else with a quick temper that they could not control would have put him throught the wall!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Anger management training is an excellent investment in freedom, and keeping most of the money you make.

D.

 

[TigerWoman]

I've been in one - and not much of a "fight". I kicked a would be mugger/attacker in the groin. End of fight, I escaped. I should not have walked to a vacant parking lot in a city at night. Yeah, I'm a woman. But from looking at this thread, I have to wonder is the ability to get into fights something to be proud of? I would think if you could AVOID the fight, you have superior mental capabilities not just a set of fists and feet. Most traditional martial arts teach self control and anger-management. I know our master/instructor has taken away black belts of those that have gotten into non-defensive fights. Most people with an attitude to just want to beat up people don't make it too far in our school.

Somehow if you allow yourself to get in the position to have to fight, you've lost, if you can't walk away you've lost, if you have to pound the guy to get a point across, you've lost. And in my opinion, even if you have to defend yourself to escape harm, you've lost because it didn't have to be that way.

 

[7starmantis]

Somehow if you allow yourself to get in the position to have to fight, you've lost, if you can't walk away you've lost, if you have to pound the guy to get a point across, you've lost. And in my opinion, even if you have to defend yourself to escape harm, you've lost because it didn't have to be that way.

I agree with you 100% except that there are most deffinatly situations where you are attacked that you had no control over. I've been in a couple in my life and I'm the first to walk away from a fight if possible. If you allow yourself to be caught in the pre-fight yes you have allready lost. So basically I agree, but just wanted to point out that there are those few situations that are beyond our control, and those are the ones for which I train.

7sm

 

[MichiganTKD]

Exactly. One of the reasons why we train is to be able to defend ourselves in situations where we have exausted all other options and things happen beyond our control. For instance, walking in the dark is not recommended, but sometimes it cannot be helped. If someone is about to cause us or someone else harm and we cannot get away, we might have no choice. But to want to fight to teach someone a lesson or because your ego needs to be satisfied is plain wrong.

 

[Jion]

I voted two... I lumped all of my schoolage fights in as one.

My most recent encounter was stopping a shoplifter. I was walking toward the entrance to the local Wal-Mart when I noticed one of the greeters attempting to stop a man who was leaving. The man glanced at the greeter and began to walk faster. I was maybe 10 feet from him, so I stepped forward in front of him. He was holding what appeared to be a box wrapped in some kind of plastic packaging. He assumed a defensive posture and sidestepped to the left. I reached out with my left hand and grabbed his shirt, and he swung the package at my head, smacking me in the face. My glasses went flying, and I can remember snapping my head back to look at him and throwing one punch to his face. I then grabbed his other shoulder and threw him to the ground. I made the mistake, from years of wrestling, to throw him face up, though, and he was still fighting back. I lifted him up, threw one kneelift to his chest, and then put him face down and laid on top of him, waiting for security. I was there maybe five seconds, looking around at the people staring when I heard the greeter, package in hand, tell me to let him go. I was confused, of course, and hoping I hadn't just attacked an innocent guy, so I lifted him up by his now torn shirt - my left hand still had not let go of his shirt since I first grabbed him. He just walked off across the parking lot.

So, I washed off my scraped up elbow - asphalt hurts - and found out that yes, he was a shoplifter. Of course, I was useless for shopping with the adrenaline my body had pumped out.

 

[Jion]

Wow... wrote a lot there. I do apologize... the fight was just very vivid to me. Even now.

 

[Tony]

Hi Jion

Welcome to the boards! That was a very brave thing you did stopping the shoplifter, but wasn't he arrested? I hope I would be just as brave if a similar situation occurred! This does remind me of something similar that happened when I was on my way to my Kung Fu class. As its held in this big leisure centre theres all kinds of activities going on and I was walking through when I noticed a heated argument between a security guy and some local tough guy. I think what had happened was this person had attacked another member of staff and the security guy was trying to escort him off the premises. It was pretty intense but he managed to kick the guy out and I don't remember there be being any more trouble.
When I've been out in Oxford shopping I have noticed shoplifters being restrained my security personnel. It seems to happen a lot. They probably think they can try their luck but they're wrong, however I wouldn't consider a job in security, such a high risk of violence!

 

[MichiganTKD]

That's right. Why risk life, limb, and safety for a job that pays $7.50/hour? I really think some people go into security or bouncing because they want to crack heads if given a chance.

 

[Cruentus]

That's right. Why risk life, limb, and safety for a job that pays $7.50/hour? I really think some people go into security or bouncing because they want to crack heads if given a chance.

I only did private security jobs that either paid pretty well (by college kid standards) or because I knew the person holding the venue. In the 80's in some areas bouncing paid better then most non-college-educated jobs out there. By the time I was of age to bounce, cooking and construction paid better, so I did a hell of a lot more cooking and construction then bouncing, for that reason.

I agree, though, that many bouncers are just looking for the ego trip.

:ultracool

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I only did private security jobs that either paid pretty well (by college kid standards) or because I knew the person holding the venue. In the 80's in some areas bouncing paid better then most non-college-educated jobs out there. By the time I was of age to bounce, cooking and construction paid better, so I did a hell of a lot more cooking and construction then bouncing, for that reason.

I agree, though, that many bouncers are just looking for the ego trip.

:ultracool

I guesss it depends on where you bounce. In the eighties, where I started, I was paid (including being tipped out by bar and witresses) 25.00/hr. Later transferred to "Genterlemans Clubs", where I could make as much as $350.00/night.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I guesss it depends on where you bounce. In the eighties, where I started, I was paid (including being tipped out by bar and witresses) 25.00/hr. Later transferred to "Genterlemans Clubs", where I could make as much as $350.00/night.

Where I worked in teh Mid to LAte 80's I was lucky to get $6.50 an hour under the table. Some gigs got you $10.00 an hour yet they were not regular paying.

You could make more as a short order cook, if you could find the work. Lots of people looking.

BTW: Programming in the local area only paid $4.25 an hour.

I worked both security and bouncing and catering and news paper delivery and ..., to pay the bills and have food to eat. One of my favorite past times .

I agree it depends upon where and when, for what was a going and good rates