How effective is the MT knee strike?

[drop bear]

But your opponent's body weight can land on top of your neck.

View attachment 28245

Sit Out.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sit Out.

In your clip, he is not chocking on his opponent's neck.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In your clip, he is not chocking on his opponent's neck.

Yep two different things.

 

[drop bear]

In your clip, he is not chocking on his opponent's neck.

Correct. Because he is sitting out. The defence is a posture one.

See how your mate is ducking his head forward.

You don't do that. The duck under, the standing guillotine defence the sit out from north south. You are doing the other thing.

This is why when you see a duck under. You don't leave your head there to be guillotined.

If you are going to defend or counter a move. You should find someone who can do that move.

Not people who are just going to leave there head sticking out and not people who suddenly can't do a Thai clinch because you drop a couple of inches.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not people who are just going to leave there head sticking out and not people who suddenly can't do a Thai clinch because you drop a couple of inches.

all you need is a few inches to duck under an arm. Why duck lower than you need to. So you can eat a knee?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Correct. Because he is sitting out. The defence is a posture one.

The most effective defense is to use your left hand to push on his right elbow joint. As long as his arm can't come back, you will be safe.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The most effective defense is to use your left hand to push on his right elbow joint. As long as his arm can't come back, you will be safe.

Within reason. There are a couple exceptions to your clip. In Jow Ga we have a kick that follows that swing and you would catch it right in the chest as you duck. The duck would save you from catching it in the face but it will definitely catch you in your chest. You would need to use a different punching technique. We use a similar punch, but the punch being shown here isn't going to flow into a good kick.

 

[drop bear]

all you need is a few inches to duck under an arm. Why duck lower than you need to. So you can eat a knee?

You duck lower than you need to so that you can get caught in a guillotine choke.

It doesn't really matter how low someone ducks in a duck under(sort of) so long as they are not giving away space for that knee.

 

[drop bear]

The most effective defense is to use your left hand to push on his right elbow joint. As long as his arm can't come back, you will be safe.

So the best defence against a guillotine while doing a duck under is to defend the world worst hook punch?

 

[JowGaWolf]

So the best defence against a guillotine while doing a duck under is to defend the world worst hook punch?

The lesson is about controlling the elbow. Do you see a guillotine in that video?

 

[drop bear]

The lesson is about controlling the elbow. Do you see a guillotine in that video?

I think the ultimate lesson is make sure the other guy isnt very good.

Then if he throws a snails pace hook sticking your hand out and trapping his elbow will work.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think the ultimate lesson is make sure the other guy isnt very good.

Then if he throws a snails pace hook sticking your hand out and trapping his elbow will work.

Let's switch your position.

Are you saying that every time your opponent dodges under your hook punch (or head lock), you can always use elbow to hit on his head (or use reverse head lock on him)?

The only thing that's between your elbow and his head is his hand (or his arm).

 

[drop bear]

Let's switch your position.

Are you saying that every time your opponent dodges under your hook punch (or head lock), you can always use elbow to hit on his head (or use reverse head lock on him)?

The only thing that's between your elbow and his head is his hand (or his arm).

I think you would struggle to either head lock of elbow effectively if he is ducking under the arm with any degree of ability. Regardless if his hand was in the way or not.


So here there is neither a head lock or an elbow available.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let's switch your position.

Are you saying that every time your opponent dodges under your hook punch (or head lock), you can always use elbow to hit on his head (or use reverse head lock on him)?

The only thing that's between your elbow and his head is his hand (or his arm).

If it's actually a hook punch or real attempt at a head lock, there's not really enough time to dramatically alter the direction of the arm's travel with sufficient force to deliver a meaningful elbow blow, in the short time they are passing under it. Fetting to the guillotine in that situation requires a change not only in direction of the arm, but also a change in the structure of the shoulder (arm has to angle completely differently). If the guy hangs out while making the transition, you might be able to deliver a meaningful elbow strike, but that'd be a bad duck-under.

I prefer to try to get that outside hand on the arm as I duck under, but not to control the elbow. For me, it's so I know where that arm is - there are situations where I may prefer to use it, and I can't recognize those if I don't know where that arm is.

 

[jayoliver00]

How effective is the MT knee strike? Your thought?

Here's a good example of the MT clinch knee being not easy to just escape or counter when you're getting blasted.

 

[jayoliver00]

It may be an advantage to have a shorter person in a clinch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier. First you got the get the clinch on. The clinch isn't some kind of unstoppable technique. Like everything else it has points of weaknesses and it has limitations on when it's most effective. If a shorter fighter fights a taller opponent the same way he fights someone of the same size then he will lose. A lot of of what you see as "easier to get." is often the result of that.

It's a huge advantage, which is why you don't want to make yourself shorter while in the clinch or about to be put into the clinch. Because getting blasted with knees while getting clinched, changes a lot of things.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's a huge advantage, which is why you don't want to make yourself shorter while in the clinch or about to be put into the clinch. Because getting blasted with knees while getting clinched, changes a lot of things.

In clinch, a

- tall person can control the short person's head (upper body control). When you control your opponent's head, where his head go, his body will follow.
- short person can control the tall person's waist (lower body control). When you control your opponent's waist, you control the center part of his body.

The advantage-disadvantage is 50-50.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here's a good example of the MT clinch knee being not easy to just escape or counter when you're getting blasted.

To receive a knee strike on the chest is bad. But when you hold on your opponent's kneeing leg and then hook his standing leg off the ground, the hard falling for him can be worse. Also, since you hold on one of your opponent's legs, your knee can drop into his groin, that can be even worse.

It's pretty much like if you don't kill me with your knee strike, I will take you down hard and then drop my knee into your groin. Which one is worse?

The moment that your opponent is down, the moment that the striking game is over, the grappling game will start.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To receive a knee strike on the chest is bad. But when you hold on your opponent's kneeing leg and then hook his standing leg off the ground, the hard falling for him can be worse. Also, since you hold on one of your opponent's legs, your knee can drop into his groin, that can be even worse.

It's pretty much like if you don't kill me with your knee strike, I will take you down hard and then drop my knee into your groin. Which one is worse?

The moment that your opponent is down, the moment that the striking game is over, the grappling game will start.

The kind of clinch used affects structure. You can't pick up a leg with the force to knee back if your opponent has pressure applied that keeps you double-weighted (weight even across both feet). You'd also have to get past that structure control to manage something like hooking his standing leg off the ground.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The kind of clinch used affects structure. You can't pick up a leg with the force to knee back if your opponent has pressure applied that keeps you double-weighted (weight even across both feet). You'd also have to get past that structure control to manage something like hooking his standing leg off the ground.

Even if your structure is broken, you still have 2 free hands.

1. To use your hands to protect your head, or
2. To use your hands to catch your opponent's leg.

I believe 1 < 2.