How effective is the MT knee strike?

[Unkogami]

And it doesn't have to be a big duck. The key is to force your opponent to adjust their clinch so they don't lose it. Gotta lead the dance.

A big duck is unlikely to be successful anyway.

 

[Martial D]

Give it a try. Not sure if you spar these days, but ask someone to try to clinch you. First stand tall and take advantage of all your opportunities. Then lower you stance maybe 2 or 3 inches. It just depends on if they are the same height as you. When you lower yourself take note of all the opportunities that open up for you as they try to get the clinch. This is the only way you can see and understand what I'm talking about. After you do this, ask your training which stance height was easier for him.

It's actually easier to get a mt plum clinch on a shorter guy.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's actually easier to get a mt plum clinch on a shorter guy.

It may be an advantage to have a shorter person in a clinch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier. First you got the get the clinch on. The clinch isn't some kind of unstoppable technique. Like everything else it has points of weaknesses and it has limitations on when it's most effective. If a shorter fighter fights a taller opponent the same way he fights someone of the same size then he will lose. A lot of of what you see as "easier to get." is often the result of that.

If you watch the video below you see that the shorter fighter fights as if he's fighting a person the same height. That strategy won't work. In the rematch you'll see that he shuts down the clinch attempts of the taller fighter.

Does a taller fighter have advantages over a shorter person in the clinch? Yes
Is it easier for the fighter to get the clinch? Probably not. Unless the shorter fighter is going to fight the taller fights as if they were the same same height. I don't know about you guys, but I don't use the same strategy and techniques for taller fighters and smaller fighters. Failure to understand that different approaches are needed will guarantee a loss or unnecessary punishment.

As a shorter person, if you know that my clinch is less effective against someone taller then why would I try to get into a clinch that takes me out of the required structure? I also fight in a lower stance than a lot of you guys, which is why some of you guys have a difficult time in understanding what I'm saying about lowering my stance.

I'm 5'9 and I wouldn't be surprised if many of you here are taller than me.

 

[jayoliver00]

Or easier to duck under and take his back. Take your opponent's back and you should be in business.

It could work, but you're more likely to eat a knee to the face; leading to more knees to the face = a downward spiral of diminishing returns for this highly risky technique.

The smarter move, in relation to lowering stance, is to drop a level, cup both of OPP's elbows with both hands, spread it apart (to unlock forearms from your jaw line) & push elbow forward, duck head down while scooting out backwards...all done in almost, one long motion = escape.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The clinch isn't some kind of unstoppable technique.

This is why in a clinch that you allow your opponent to have 2 free arms is a bad idea.

 

[jayoliver00]

It doesn't make it easier.

C'mon dude, I clinch fight every week for the last 15+ years straight. Let's put it this way, it's much easier to clinch fight short people. If anything, Shorties are my favorite people to clinch fight against. Like when I clinch fight a 6'4" dudes, the last thing I'd want to do is to get shorter while purposefully staying in the clinch.

 

[jayoliver00]

This is why in a clinch that you allow your opponent to have 2 free arms is a bad idea.

View attachment 28215

There are counters to everything, you should know this. And it's definitely not "a bad idea" as dudes in Thailand do this all day w/200-400 fights career to feed their family. We (MT's) are just a lot better than most TMA's when it comes to clinch fighting.

Having said that, I am very impressed by how knowledgeable you are with these techs. Your weakness, IMO, is that you don't spar enough with MT's who are at your level to find out that it's not that black & white as you're stating (notice, I didn't say spar Saenchai or something).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

IMO, is that you don't spar enough with MT's

Next door of my MA school was a Tai grocery store "Say Hi". The owner was a professional MT fighter in Bangkok. We sparred for about 3 years. That was how I changed my CMA roundhouse kick into MT roundhouse kick. I also picked up "flying knee" from him.

He told me that in average a MT fighter only had 6 years of professional life. During those 6 years, massage after daily training was a must.

You are right. After that, I have not met any professional MT fighters. The full contact Karate started to get popular at that time. Many Karate guys started to use me as their sparring partner. Most of my sparring experience came from those Karate guys. They don't use double collar tie and knee strike.

 

[jayoliver00]

Next door of my MA school was a Tai grocery store "Say Hi". The owner was a professional MT fighter in Bangkok. We sparred for about 3 years. That was how I changed my CMA roundhouse kick into MT roundhouse kick. I also picked up "flying knee" from him.

He told me that in average a MT fighter only had 6 years of professional life. During those 6 years, massage after daily training was a must.

You are right. After that, I have not met any professional MT fighters. The full contact Karate started to get popular at that time. Many Karate guys started to use me as their sparring partner. Most of my sparring experience came from those Karate guys. They don't use double collar tie and knee strike.

That's good experience then, thanks for sharing.

I'm just putting 2 + 2 together in terms of why you've been disparaging the MT full plum so much. I'm not saying it's the ultimate position of dominance or anything; but it's still very, very dominant in MT, yet you're making it sound like junk...which makes me think you haven't really went up against a Nak Muay at your level & size, sparring hard (up to knock down or KO).

As far as Pro Thai fighter goes, most of them are Pros as soon as they get paid. Little kids get paid too; same with fighters who suck, just like 0-33 Boxers here who keep getting fights to pad the records of up & coming Boxers. MT fighting is like an industry there. So I don't really know how good he is. I know many of them lie also, just like one Kru I know that got exposed all over the internet due to a gigantic lie; but he was still a decent instructor. One of my Thai Kru said he had 250 fights in Thailand...this dude was 65 and had the same endurance as all of us at that time in our 20-30's and kicked all of our butts; but still no easy way to confirm his record nor stories.

 

[jayoliver00]

from those Karate guys. They don't use double collar tie and knee strike.

It's not legal to clinch & keep kneeing in Karate, right? Even with K-1, it's only 1 strike then you must release the clinch.

This is why MT's are usually much better with clinch fighting than other styles.

 

[Unkogami]

It could work, but you're more likely to eat a knee to the face; leading to more knees to the face = a downward spiral of diminishing returns for this highly risky technique.

The smarter move, in relation to lowering stance, is to drop a level, cup both of OPP's elbows with both hands, spread it apart (to unlock forearms from your jaw line) & push elbow forward, duck head down while scooting out backwards...all done in almost, one long motion = escape.

If a duck under is done properly, your head will never be anywhere near a knee. If you're pushing the elbows outward, you might as well just yell "Hey, look what I'm trying to do!"

 

[JowGaWolf]

If a duck under is done properly, your head will never be anywhere near a knee.

I think we may have a wider understanding of what would be considered as "duck under something." There also seems to be a limited view of stance height as well. I have a feeling that when we say "duck" that people are thinking of this guy. If this is what is coming to people's mind then it's not the same thing that I'm thinking of when I talk about ducking under a clinch..

My ability to duck should not look like a bow.

In terms of stances, I'm going to guess that MT practitioners don't vary their stance height too much, if at all.

 

[Martial D]

It may be an advantage to have a shorter person in a clinch, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easier. First you got the get the clinch on. The clinch isn't some kind of unstoppable technique. Like everything else it has points of weaknesses and it has limitations on when it's most effective. If a shorter fighter fights a taller opponent the same way he fights someone of the same size then he will lose. A lot of of what you see as "easier to get." is often the result of that.

If you watch the video below you see that the shorter fighter fights as if he's fighting a person the same height. That strategy won't work. In the rematch you'll see that he shuts down the clinch attempts of the taller fighter.

Does a taller fighter have advantages over a shorter person in the clinch? Yes
Is it easier for the fighter to get the clinch? Probably not. Unless the shorter fighter is going to fight the taller fights as if they were the same same height. I don't know about you guys, but I don't use the same strategy and techniques for taller fighters and smaller fighters. Failure to understand that different approaches are needed will guarantee a loss or unnecessary punishment.

As a shorter person, if you know that my clinch is less effective against someone taller then why would I try to get into a clinch that takes me out of the required structure? I also fight in a lower stance than a lot of you guys, which is why some of you guys have a difficult time in understanding what I'm saying about lowering my stance.

I'm 5'9 and I wouldn't be surprised if many of you here are taller than me.

No. It's easier.

It's just mechanics. I've been doing mt a long time.

There's a reason Thai boxers stand as tall as possible...and that's it.

 

[jayoliver00]

If a duck under is done properly, your head will never be anywhere near a knee.

You just said in post #81, "A big duck is unlikely to be successful anyway".

If you're pushing the elbows outward, you might as well just yell "Hey, look what I'm trying to do!"

This is a very well known MT tech that often work.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you're pushing the elbows outward, you might as well just yell "Hey, look what I'm trying to do!"

Elbow pressing will also work. It can set up your underhook if your opponent refuses to let go. When your arm is on top and inside of your opponent's arm, you will have advantage over your opponent.

 

[Oily Dragon]

How effective is the _____ knee strike? Your thought?

Yes. Hanuman thayarn works. Flying Golder Rooster. Whatever it takes.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes. Hanuman thayarn works. Flying Golder Rooster. Whatever it takes.

Insert solution for that flying knee. Too bad he didn't know it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Insert solution for that flying knee. Too bad he didn't know it.
View attachment 28236

I'll try to get the MMA guy to do some flying knees on me or maybe some free knee shots. I know some people see this and think I'm smoking crack lol.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Insert solution for that flying knee. Too bad he didn't know it.
View attachment 28236

What do you know about dodgeball?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do you know about dodgeball?

The only thing I know is that the ball we played with was a big red rubber ball.