How effective is the MT knee strike?

[JowGaWolf]

And you can be clinched because you are a few inches lower?

Give it a try. Not sure if you spar these days, but ask someone to try to clinch you. First stand tall and take advantage of all your opportunities. Then lower you stance maybe 2 or 3 inches. It just depends on if they are the same height as you. When you lower yourself take note of all the opportunities that open up for you as they try to get the clinch. This is the only way you can see and understand what I'm talking about. After you do this, ask your training which stance height was easier for him.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Give it a try.

I had sparred with a Karate guy once. I stayed in low stance. My head was about his waist level. He didn't like my fighting stance. He refused to spar with me after that.

Chinese wrestling uses low stance.

 

[pudaoking]

So my answer to the ridiculous question of whether an MT knee strike is effective or not can easily and definitively be answered like this. By me posing a question back to you. Is the color blue an effective color when used in painting? If you are wise enough to grasp the answer to this, you will have the answer you seek for your initial question. I suggest you focus more time on training instead of pondering nonsense. When you deeply understand whatever system you train, you should have no questions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So my answer to the ridiculous question of whether an MT knee strike is effective or not can easily and definitively be answered like this. By me posing a question back to you. Is the color blue an effective color when used in painting? If you are wise enough to grasp the answer to this, you will have the answer you seek for your initial question. I suggest you focus more time on training instead of pondering nonsense. When you deeply understand whatever system you train, you should have no questions.

May be the title of this thread should be changed into "How risky is the MT knee strike?"

 

[super saiyan 4]

How effective is the MT knee strike? Your thought?

Here is an example that:

- A knees strike at B.
- B catch A's leg and takes A down.

Your more likely to be taken down throwing a regular kick the knee itself is not considered to be overly risky regardless of whatever actually happens after the fact

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So my answer to the ridiculous question of whether an MT knee strike is effective or not can easily and definitively be answered like this. By me posing a question back to you. Is the color blue an effective color when used in painting? If you are wise enough to grasp the answer to this, you will have the answer you seek for your initial question. I suggest you focus more time on training instead of pondering nonsense. When you deeply understand whatever system you train, you should have no questions.

Deep understanding should produce better questions, rather than eliminating all questions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Deep understanding should produce better questions, rather than eliminating all questions.

If we compare front kick and side kick, the side kick is riskier than the front kick. Why?

In order to answer this question, deep understanding about both kicks will be needed.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you deeply understand whatever system you train, you should have no questions.

You may look at this thread from MT point of view. You may also look at it from wrestling point of view. IMO, it's always fun to compare the difference.

This is why I like general MA discussion. I don't like style only discussion.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

yes every mt knee strike has a counter

 

[jayoliver00]

You have to be at a lower stance before the clinch. It doesn't have to be super low. It just hast to be lower than what's required for the clinch. I'm glad I found this video. It sums it up nicely.

Modern Muay Thai (1:20)
Ancient Stance Muay Boran (2:35)

What do you mean that "You have to be at a lower stance before the clinch"?

If you stand in a tall stance and I stand in a low stance, Your punches cannot reach me, but my punches can reach you. You have to test this in a static position because it's the easiest way to understand the mechanics of it. The picture below is an example. If the center of the circle is your shoulder then then circle itself is the rotation of the the arm. This picture is a little in accurate but it will do. The fist will only touch the sides of the square at one point (it doesn't look like it here because the circle and square overlap instead of touching the edges of each other. Each point of contact is at 90°. Anything less than that will start to fall short. If I lower my stance I will still be able to reach you so long as I punch straight and not at an angle. I may not be able to hit your face but I can hit your stomach. That's the basic concept. However in application, nothing is static, so what it does in application is that it allows me to out of the way faster using a shorter distance. Clinches require that your opponent stands at a certain height in relation to you. If I'm below that height then you won't be able to initiate that clinch.
View attachment 28195

Muay Thai is a major part of the Thai's economy. There are good reasons why they rarely do Muay Boran stance anymore; they'll get knocked out. It's more of a gimmick to teach MB nowadays.

No offense, but you don't train nor fight Muay Thai and especially not at a level where your family needs the money from it to not starve. Neither do I, but if what you say works, the Thais would use it. I've trained it a lot more than you do, and follow a lot of what the Thais & Dutch do for 2 decades now; including clinch fighting every week for that long. Nobody stays low like that to avoid the clinch. I love fighting shorter dudes, b/c they're much easier to clinch & just about everything else.

In terms of being in a clinch, I wouldn't lower myself unless I was up close to the person applying the clinch. I would only do that to slip under an armpit if the clinch loosens up. I don't want to move back because then my opponent can basically use by body to support his structure (Like leaning on a hand rail to walk). If I move back then my structure will be worse as I do not have anyone to lean on. If I close the gap and move forward then I can cut down on the power of the knee strikes and it prevents my opponent from being able to use my structure to support himself. While I'm closing the gap, I need to be trying to either break his structure or the structure of the clinch. I have to give his body 2 things to deal with. He brain will only think 1 thing. Either strike or try to maintain the clinch. He cannot do both without controlling the clinch. Either break the structure of the clinch or the structure of the standing leg. I personally wouldn't try to pull back as I would be pulling his strike towards me. Unfortunately, pulling back is a natural response.

Here, are you talking about being in neutral position while in the clinch (and wanting to be there to clinch fight) OR being caught in the full plum & your posture is broken?

 

[jayoliver00]

Both clinch and knee strike are basic training for my guys.

That's good, you're the few exceptions. Many of the TMA's I've sparred with, usually get wrecked by the clinch alone w/no full/hard knees (b/c it's friendly sparring). Which looks exactly like what's happening here in the video that you posted; a TMA who's oblivious to clinch fighting vs. a Sanda fighter who trains it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do you mean that "You have to be at a lower stance before the clinch"?

You can change the height of your stance. If I want to prevent the clinch then I simply fight with a lower stance than what my opponent is fighting at

 

[jayoliver00]

You can change the height of your stance. If I want to prevent the clinch then I simply fight with a lower stance than what my opponent is fighting at

Lowering your stance like that just makes it easier to clinch you when the opportunity arises.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do you mean that "You have to be at a lower stance before the clinch"?




Muay Thai is a major part of the Thai's economy. There are good reasons why they rarely do Muay Boran stance anymore; they'll get knocked out. It's more of a gimmick to teach MB nowadays.

No offense, but you don't train nor fight Muay Thai and especially not at a level where your family needs the money from it to not starve. Neither do I, but if what you say works, the Thais would use it. I've trained it a lot more than you do, and follow a lot of what the Thais & Dutch do for 2 decades now; including clinch fighting every week for that long. Nobody stays low like that to avoid the clinch. I love fighting shorter dudes, b/c they're much easier to clinch & just about everything else.




Here, are you talking about being in neutral position while in the clinch (and wanting to be there to clinch fight) OR being caught in the full plum & your posture is broken?

I'm talking about the point at which someone is trying to apply the plum. If I'm in a full clinch then I need to disrupt the clinch an my opponent's ability to maintain it.

 

[jayoliver00]

I'm talking about the point at which someone is trying to apply the plum. If I'm in a full clinch then I need to disrupt the clinch an my opponent's ability to maintain it.

If you're caught in the full plum, then you'd want to posture up with necks tightened, bearhug, and get your hips, pressed against the hips of the OPP; one way to not get kneed to the body then face.

You don't lower your stance, b/c that helps him knee your face. And he's already pushing you down while his forearms have locked you by the jawline.

There are ways to drop low & escape completely, but you don't just lower your stance & stay there to clinch fight.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you're caught in the full plum, then you'd want to posture up with necks tightened, bearhug, and get your hips, pressed against the hips of the OPP; one way to not get kneed to the body then face.

You don't lower your stance, b/c that helps him knee your face. And he's already pushing you down while his forearms have locked you by the jawline.

There are ways to drop low & escape completely, but you don't just lower your stance & stay there to clinch fight.

You are still not understanding what I'm talking about. You are responding to 2 different things. But thinking of it as one thing
1.. What I would do in a clinch
2. What I do to prevent one.

These are two separate things

 

[jayoliver00]

You are still not understanding what I'm talking about. You are responding to 2 different things. But thinking of it as one thing
1.. What I would do in a clinch
2. What I do to prevent one.

These are two separate things

ok, but you cleared it; which was what I just responded to....your saying that you're being caught in the full plum.

which i said, you don't drop your stance lower & stay there to clinch fight.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Lowering your stance like that just makes it easier to clinch you when the opportunity arises.

It doesn't make it easier.

 

[Unkogami]

Lowering your stance like that just makes it easier to clinch you when the opportunity arises.

Or easier to duck under and take his back. Take your opponent's back and you should be in business.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Or easier to duck under and take his back. Take your opponent's back and you should be in business.

And it doesn't have to be a big duck. The key is to force your opponent to adjust their clinch so they don't lose it. Gotta lead the dance.