How do you protect yourself against multiple attackers with weapons?

[Maddogkull]

I recently found out a friend of mine in Calgary got jumped by some thugs, and he got stabbed multiple times got his throat sliced and is in intensive care. Now I always wonder if he knew a form of martial arts he might of been able to disarm the multiple attackers. Now I am wondering for me, what are some martial arts that are best for protecting yourself against multiple attackers? I am talking about what martial arts are lethal and can kill multiple attackers quickly and efficiently? Any reply would be great.

 

[Omar B]

How many attackers where there?

As for your real question. No there is no martial art for multiple attackers. Some styles spend time on it, some even considerable time. Thing is, you can never truly prepare for multiple numbers and varied weapons. After all, how does one practice a scenario like say a drunken Friday night on the town while attacked by 7 (or 8, 9, 10, 73) machete wielding thugs. Oh yeah, and that happens here so don't say it's a dumb scenario, after all the Macheteros is one of the bigger gangs out there in NY now.

 

[Maddogkull]

Around 5 attackers, and all wielding knives.

 

[Maddogkull]

And if there are no martial arts what preventable measures can you take?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

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[MJS]

I have to go with Omar here on this one. Yes, there are arts and people out there, that do take the time to work multi man attacks, but in the case that was described...multiple armed people...well, IMO, you better be a very fast runner or have a weapon of your own, preferably a gun, and be a damn good shot, and even then, success is not a given.

Omar is right about the gangs too. Some links about incidents in the MA area:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1085266

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/08/16/city_gangs_turning_to_machetes_police_say/

 

[MJS]

Around 5 attackers, and all wielding knives.

And if there are no martial arts what preventable measures can you take?

Keep in mind, a real multi man attack scenario will not be like what you see in the movies, where the hero fights 10 guys, who all attack him one at a time. As I've said many, many times, the martial arts do not give us superhuman powers. An edge yes, but in overwhelming odds like this.....

Again, having a weapon of your own. Possibly using one of the bad guys as a shield, but again, nothing is a sure shot.

My suggestions....be aware of your surroundings. Stay out of bad areas. If moving out of the bad area isn't an option, perhaps look into buying a handgun. Of course just because you may have a gun, doesnt ensure success either. If you're going to take the time to get a gun, then take the time to train with it.

 

[kaizasosei]

Just some thoughts i've had
First one must realize the right time to attack and the right time to give up.
Then one must consider the surroundings and space available. After that one need only be able to handle the individuals that are attacking and have the resolve to win at all costs. I have calculated that the greatest problem is the third attack. Already dealing with two people is risky and challenging. But the thrird person is symbolic for the person that is able to easily get you because you are busy with the others.
The only way is to either give up and remain purely defensive, or to strike to maim and be utterly brutal. If someone pulls a knife one must gain alot of distance, but if someone pulls a gun then one must if possible get to him before he can work it and take it away or else it's game over. Multiple guns means, give up right away or take that huge step to risk getting a gun and blasting everyone, most likely also getting blasted.
The first person is the one that pushes, the second comes to strike and the third is the one that tackles. The tackle is the greatest problem, the pushing the most distracting and the strike is the most overwhelming and most crucial thing that the ma avoid and manage. As i have often heard it told to me, 'after you kill the first one, the rest will all leave.' kindof hardcore but it's about dominating in readiness to fight or readiness to hurt and be hurt.
If all else fails maybe try some appealing to humanity or acting really hurt and sorry.

j

 

[Maddogkull]

They asked for his money
then he gave them his money
then they started to stab him

 

[kaizasosei]

Horrible.

 

[jks9199]

Reality: You can defend yourself against multiple armed attackers-- but only if you realize that you will almost certainly be hurt, and successfully defending yourself means getting out without being dead. Even if you're armed, if they're close enough to attack you, the reality is that while you're dealing with one -- another is closing in.

There are things you can do; techniques like stacking your opponents so that they interfere with each other, finding environmental advantages (like walls, for example) to protect one flank or to channel your attackers, and simply being efficient in how you deal with each attacker -- but there's only so much you can do. There's a reason cops use a pig pile to take someone down: if we put 4 or 5 (or more!) cops on one knucklehead... we can handle almost anyone.

 

[searcher]

We work on multiple attacker situations in my EPAK class and in my C-ryu classes, but against what you explained, they will not be effective at that level.

What you need to think about is that for each attacker you add it triples the difficulty in defending. Against 5 attackers with weapons, it is even higher. IMO, 45 times harder than against a single unarmed person.

This is the reason I became a handgun instructor and why I carry a gun. The only way I would be willing to defend against guys like the situation you described, is if I am more heavily armed than they are.

IMO, your best bet is to get trained with a firearm and get licensed to carry one.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

To be honest Ive got no idea what I'd do in that situation and I hope it never happens. One bit of advice an instructor gave me once was aginst multiple attackers stand in a doorway if possible as then only one can attack you at a time. Another piece of advice I was given was that once you know a fight cannot be averted take out one of the 'bad guys' in the quickest , most brutal manner possible , in a large number of instances the others will flee and take on someone else. These are easier said than done and I dont know if Id trust them but there is really little to no hope in a multiple attacker situation.

 

[K831]

The schools I have been associated with that did the most multi-attacker stuff were; AKKI Kenpo, Krav Maga and some FMA's.

Try your luck with one of those varieties in your area.

Gaining the skills to more quickly, effectively and economically dispatch attackers will help. Learning how to position yourself relative to the group so as to limit the number that can engage you will help. Learning to uses weapons and improvised weapons will helps.

Before any of that though, learning to be more aware of your surroundings and circumstances is key. Notice groups, notice who is watching you, notice when a person or group is following you or spreading out or bunching up etc. Learning to recognize threat signs.

Also, the verbal skills to deescalate and escalate, and the knowledge as to when to try both is key. Learn when to be proactive and preempt the attack with an attack.

Lastly, gaining the mindset of survival and the grit to fight and or run after being hurt is key.

Some are lucky enough to work on all of that with one source, most have to really search. Good luck

Also, don't be afraid to run if you don't feel right.

 

[ATC]

The end of Bill's clip has it right. Use a "GUN"!

 

[Chris Parker]

Multiple attackers with weapons... well, actually, Ninjutsu does deal specifically with this concept. But it is of course dressed up in the cultural clothings of Old Japan.

Within the Togakure Ryu there are a few kata where you find yourself up against 2 swordsmen, a swordsman and a spearman, or three spearmen. And the primary strategy is simple.... get the hell out of there!!! Whatever you have to do, get out. Use distraction, don't let them surround you, and avoid engaging whenever possible. At least, that's the Classical approach.

In a modern-style situation such as the one mentioned (or Omar's situations), if you are accosted and can leave, leave. Run. Fast. And pray. If you can't, leaving should still be your primary goal. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT try to fight them off. Just get out. Five guys with knives come at you demanding money, throw your wallet at them and run. Don't just hand it over, you need to get distance. And run. And really, that's identical to the Classical. Our primary strategy is to survive, not to win.

 

[Bruno@MT]

As Chris said: leave. Run. Pray the soldiers prayer while doing so.
Even better: don't be there. Those 5 guys had to come from somewhere. Pay attention to your surroundings, don't walk close to alley entrances or cut close around corners. Avoid bad parts of town at all.

No fighting style prepares you for fighting 5 armed thugs. What Steven Saegal, Jet Li and Uma Thurman do in the movies is choreographed to look good, not realistic.

It is not impossible to win perhaps, as long as you don't get surrounded and maybe take the attack to them before they can come at you all at once. And maybe if you can disable the first attacker gruesome enough, the rest will lose heart. Maybe. In all likelihood however, anyone trying to actually fight 5 armed thugs will end up like your friend.

 

[kaizasosei]

Escape is the greatest defense. One time, though after taking a serious beating and having been surrounded by more than one gun holder and guns in my face, i waited for everyone to let their guard down, my knee was totally starting to shake but then i saw the chance and bolted like a desert stallion away through a parking lot,hearing commotion behind me, doing some zigzag motions in case they fire off a few after me.

Getting across the parking lot, i was completely drained any my muscles were now starting to malfunction. I saw a car and my plan was to stop it and get the people to drive me away...well, plan failed and the two ladies inside must have been freaked out because they just drove off...then i heard that i was being followed by a motorcycle(i was so fast). Again i was stopped at gunpoint from combat distance, and i just threw my hands up, shook my head and sat down. Good thing the cops showed up just when i was about to get the second beating. I wasn't really hurt at all despite the 30min beating because the attackers couldn't get me good.
Friends that tried to help me were told to back off with a gun to reinforce.

My point for telling this silly story is that one, i hadn't trained in a while so it was inevitable that i get in such a mess. Secondly because i was not thinking strategically, after not being able to stop the car, i couldn't think of any other escape, but actually, there was i believe at least one wall i could have hopped- also, i wonder if i should have been more aggressive in stopping the car-i had only a matter of seconds, but didn't want to come off even worse like im jackin them or something-my attackers had uniformed security guards on their side too.

The best is if one has several ideas for escape in case one doesn't work. Is it downhill, is it uphill? Is it barren land or are there things to put between? Are there fences, walls, corners? Can one hop trucks, buses or trains? How? Knowing how to latch onto trains and trams from the outside? When and where is it possible to hide? Jinton or mixing with people and groups to become invisible or also to use daylight and people because it's less likely getting killed or assaulted in front of witnesses.


j

 

[Touch Of Death]

And if there are no martial arts what preventable measures can you take?

Don't place yourself in places where thug are. Seriously though, I think a basic rape prevention class would give lots of good advice, the idea is tomake the thug or rapist choose someone else by taking a few preventative measures.
Sean

 

[SensibleManiac]

I'll try to find a video of a store clerk successfully fighting off two attackers one of who has a knife.
The clerk gets stabbed and slashed but not fatally and he gets to a weapon to chase them away with.
The point being that there are some basic principles to follow.