Under the right circumstances, yes, it is a high percentage shot. That's true of pretty much any technique. If you pick the right time and set it up properly, it'll probably work.
Hook Kick
- Thread starter Transk53
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Under the right circumstances, yes, it is a high percentage shot. That's true of pretty much any technique. If you pick the right time and set it up properly, it'll probably work.
OP
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- #22
Cool. Would guess that a lot becomes instinct after a while. What with drill after drill. Mind you, on TV TKD bouts look like they are slow, but I would imagine that is deceptive.
There are a lot of what I would call 'tactical pauses' to conserve energy and hopefully through footwork trick the opponent into making a mistake. The actual exchanges are anything but slow in my experience, so yes, you are right.
Further thought for sport TKD hook kick: it is popularly thrown from open stance with the front leg. I find front leg from closed stance way more deceptive as you can hide the majority of the motion in the blind spot behind the opponent's front shoulder. The first they know of it is when your foot is already coming over their shoulder. When not telegraphed, this kick is almost impossible to avoid. When telegraphed, it is extremely vulnerable to KO from a back kick or spin hook counter. A lot of the work is removing the tells.
OP
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- #25
Yes I imagine the counter would putting you on the mat. Leading with the front lower down I know about, but would not have thought that the leading leg would be deployed like that. Would there be any chance that an opponent may think that an Axe kick is en route?
Unlikely if the telegraphing is removed as far as it possibly can be. The two kicks (front leg axe and front leg hook) have the same start position at the point the opponent can still see it. By the time they could tell the difference, it's hidden behind their shoulder.
The block or evasion for both kicks would in any case be the same, i.e. shooting the arm of the front shoulder up and to the side to prevent anything coming over the shoulder. Either that or moving the head away whilst throwing the counter back kick / reverse hook.
What makes it tough for the opponent is great footwork in the initiating step - the feet must not come together, as that's wasted motion and therefore wasted time - the kicker pushes off the front foot, replaces it with the rear foot and the kick is already up there in the face. The kicker's legs stay apart and work like a pendulum. Twice as fast as bringing the back foot up first, and very hard to read.
OP
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- #27
Yeah on a basic level I am familiar with the footwork. Had to Google the counter back kick, but I must say that looks really quite dangerous to an opponent. I don't remember seeing that type of kick before, but probably wrong on that. The shooting arm. Is that considered a static part of the posture you would adopt, or would work left or right?
Interesting little snippet here. Is this pretty much textbook. The vid looks to be presented quite well.
Shooting arm: no type of guard or block is what I would call static ie permanently part of the fighting posture. The shooting arm either with the front or back arm is one of a number of possible responses for dealing with kicks the approach the head from the side.
Video clip: that's a rather static representation of a dynamic situation. Typically the counterer slips back with the standing foot. The back kick is also too long for our purposes, the knee remains bent with ours due to the closer range. Being on the receiving end of that back kick is miserable, especially if it slips up under the chin. It's my trademark kick and everyone hates it.
OP
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- #29
Shooting arm: no type of guard or block is what I would call static ie permanently part of the fighting posture. The shooting arm either with the front or back arm is one of a number of possible responses for dealing with kicks the approach the head from the side.
Video clip: that's a rather static representation of a dynamic situation. Typically the counterer slips back with the standing foot. The back kick is also too long for our purposes, the knee remains bent with ours due to the closer range. Being on the receiving end of that back kick is miserable, especially if it slips up under the chin. It's my trademark kick and everyone hates it.
Right okay, so you would be closer in without the leg fully extending. So I take you have had a few opponents go down with you're foot having made the chin
Flatfish
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Ugh, I suck at throwing a hook kick off the front leg. Can only get up to puppy kicking height. But I have used it off the back leg in sparring successfully a few times. Opponent thought I was throwing a side kick and missing him, then the foot came around and hit.
oftheherd1
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I never thought of it as needing hip strength so much as speed and focus. As I learned it, it is snapped just at the end of the kick as it is straightened. That snap makes it very powerful.
Does anyone else do the hook kick in karate? Only TKD people have given their views on it and it seems it's a bit different from the way we learn it. There's no 'snap' in the karate version I was taught and it's more like a roundhouse than a side kick.
I agree that the snap brings power, but I've also noted that those who are highly adept with this kick (for example Superfoot, or Hwang Jang Lee) are those who are also able to hold it at height and add some of that hip strength into moving both the thigh and knee through the target as opposed to just snapping the lower leg at the knee.
From what I have seen, most people snapping aren't taking the upper leg through the target, which requires strength, and seems to be where a large proportion of the power lives.
This video contains examples both good and bad - in the good examples, have a look at how far he gets his upper leg moving through the target. In the bad examples, he doesn't - it is quicker but has less power. It's the first variant that I mean requires great hip strength and mobility - moving the upper leg across the target while in the kicking position is a tall order at first. Examples begin around 45 seconds
Also, here's what happens when that counter back kick creeps higher as a counter to front leg hook. Not good for the sparring partner. I keep mine low.
I love the front leg hook - jump roundhouse, myself!
We teach it that same way to beginners, too, since it's the right leg movement, even though you generate power differently. I think it's good to get used to moving the leg that way first, then later you can practice pulling hard with the butt muscles to get the power.
The_Awesome_User
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A hook kick is kind of an upgrade to the inside to outside crescent kick and does loads more damage, but it requires much more flexibility and technical skill.
That would really depend on how good the in out crescent is. Both kicks are capable of generating phenomenal power, but they are technically demanding and most people only really manage a flick with them both. I love and hate those two kicks equally, because they are hard to do but reward hard work.
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I teach American Karate (a sport karate style), and we use a lot of Bill Wallace techs. Personally, my favorite way to use the hook kick is to the face of a "charging" fighter when in open stance. We throw the hook with the front leg; it goes out as a side kick but toward the front of the kicker's body. At full extension, the foot position changes to a pointed toe (like in a roundhouse), then the lower leg bends at the knee, snapping the sole of the foot into the target. The pointed toe is partly for extra reach. If you're closer in, and dislike the person you're fighting, you can use the heel instead. I like the hook for close-in defensive kicking because you can get the kick to face height easily by leaning away from your opponent, and the sideways movement of the kick prevents it from causing you to lose balance, whereas the thrusting movement of a high side kick while leaning can land you on your butt. The snap from the knee creates power without disrupting your balance (if you've practiced a lot, anyway.) It's also a sneaky kick; looks like you're throwing an off-target side kick, then hooks back and hits the face.
The_Awesome_User
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Hmm I kick much higher with a spin crescent but spin hook kicks are more powerful. There are just more movements going on in a hook kick while a crescent kick just kinda goes up and down in comparison.
I don't like using hook kicks without the spin.
LibbyW
Orange Belt
I never thought of this kick as something that requires a great deal of technical skill. I learnt the kick in Wado and then again may years later in JKD. I find it one of the simplest kicks to do, far easier than say...an good axe kick, or a bronco kick.
I probably use it more than any other kick as well. I can get it out there faster than other, simpler seeming kicks, and they pack a mean wallop.
A variation I like to do is to shoot the leg out at a more diagonal angle than horizontal. The ending strike will land roughly around neck or shoulder...ends up being something between a hook and an axe I guess. A hookaxe!
L
I probably use it more than any other kick as well. I can get it out there faster than other, simpler seeming kicks, and they pack a mean wallop.
A variation I like to do is to shoot the leg out at a more diagonal angle than horizontal. The ending strike will land roughly around neck or shoulder...ends up being something between a hook and an axe I guess. A hookaxe!
L
The thing that makes hook kick hard is that the upper leg and hip of the kicking side should move through the line of the target. Most people don't do that, they only use the bend of the knee and the whip of the lower leg. Using the upper leg and hip is much more technically demanding and much more powerful, but it is a rare gift when someone can do it well.
