Home schoolers denied asylum...why?

[Makalakumu]

Oh yes, the reason for all those must be the government controlled education, nothing else could explain that. Everywhere where the education is controlled by the government, evil things happen.

This is unfortunately true in many places around the world and throughout history. Sometimes, when governments control education they use it to indoctrinate the population with nationalism and perhaps a lot of other hateful things. I would say that all State run systems indoctrinate students into the particular rules of their country. This isn't always benign.

 

[grumpywolfman]

And perhaps a lot of people ignore science because they don't like the truth.

Minus your intent, I will agree with what you posted as a general statement. What can be proven as a fact, people may still disregard due to personal beliefs. But where I think we may disagree, is if evolution is indeed scientific fact that should be taught to the masses, or is it a belief system (a religion if you will)? There is no evidence of macro-evolution. So shouldn't 'evolutionism' be removed from public education? And furthermore, what about the current beliefs that same-sex relationships, and killing babies of inconvenience is part of the 'natural' behavior of humans? I don't agree with these beliefs, therefore I home school my children.

 

[K-man]

Minus your intent, I will agree with what you posted as a general statement. What can be proven as a fact, people may still disregard due to personal beliefs. But where I think we may disagree, is if evolution is indeed scientific fact that should be taught to the masses, or is it a belief system (a religion if you will)? There is no evidence of macro-evolution. So shouldn't 'evolutionism' be removed from public education? And furthermore, what about the current beliefs that same-sex relationships, and killing babies of inconvenience is part of the 'natural' behavior of humans? I don't agree with these beliefs, therefore I home school my children.

I reserve my response to when I have more time. :asian:

 

[grumpywolfman]

I reserve my response to when I have more time. :asian:

I think you'll need more than an eternity of time to try and prove that evolutionism is true K-man. But for the time being, I'm still here to listen

 

[granfire]

Sorry gran, I don't want to create bad feelings by insulting your religious views, but 'evolutionism' isn't science. There is no evidence of macro-evolution. Darwin’s Theory is actually an hypothesis that falls quite beyond the pale of the scientific method (observation, experimentation, and verification). It's just that most folks want to be thought of as "educated," and have been misled to believe that "all educated people believe in evolution." I think most people don't seek the truth - but rather seek what fits their personal desires, much like the people who indoctrinated them in the first place.

"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless," ~ Professor Louis Bouroune

"One is forced to conclude that many scientists and technologists pay lip-service to Darwinian theory only because it supposedly excludes a Creator." ~ Dr. Michael Walker

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact." ~ Dr. T.N. Tahmisian

In your case, no, my feelings aren't hurt.

But I am also not buying what you're selling.

 

[Makalakumu]

Here is a little history to consider regarding Germany's anti-homeschooling laws.

One of Hitler and his buddies' first acts on taking office was to establish the Reich Ministry of Education and give it control of all schools, including private schools. Nobody was to have the right to teach children from a different point of view than the State (with a capital "S"). There would be no right to teach from a distinctively religious point of view, especially. As Hitler said on May 1, 1937,


"The Youth of today is ever the people of tomorrow. For this reason we have set before ourselves the task of inoculating our youth with the spirit of this community of the people at a very early age, at an age when human beings are still unperverted and therefore unspoiled. This Reich stands, and it is building itself up for the future, upon its youth. And this new Reich will give its youth to no one, but will itself take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing."

Do those of you who support what is happening to this German family understand that you are basically echoing the same sentiment that Adolf Hitler stated in 1938? Do you realize that you are backing Nazi-era legislation?

http://christiannews.net/2013/05/15...oling-family-sides-with-obama-administration/

As previously reported, Uwe and Hannelore Romeike fled to the United States in 2008 after German authorities demanded that they stop homeschooling their six children. Homeschooling was made illegal in the country in 1938 under the dictatorship of Adolph Hitler, and the law has never been repealed, but rather strengthened. In 2007, the German Supreme Court ruled that the country’s mandate that children be sent to public school is necessary to “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.”

 

[grumpywolfman]

In your case, no, my feelings aren't hurt.

But I am also not buying what you're selling.

Fair enough gran

 

[billc]

You could look out your window...and see the world he created...that is some pretty impressive proof...

 

[billc]

See...Makalakumu used the "h" word, not me...

 

[billc]

Just for the record...any thread drift is fine by me...take it where you will...

 

[arnisador]

Hitler also said "I'm hungry--let's eat dinner." I agree with that sentiment.

Can I get a Godwin smiley, please?

 

[Makalakumu]

Hitler also said "I'm hungry--let's eat dinner." I agree with that sentiment.

Can I get a Godwin smiley, please?

Can I get a "dodge an uncomfortable fact" smiley?

 

[granfire]

Here is a little history to consider regarding Germany's anti-homeschooling laws.



Do those of you who support what is happening to this German family understand that you are basically echoing the same sentiment that Adolf Hitler stated in 1938? Do you realize that you are backing Nazi-era legislation?

http://christiannews.net/2013/05/15...oling-family-sides-with-obama-administration/

It also avoids having to allow certain other schoolings to become mainstream - like keeping girls out of school, because, well, they are girls, and only need to marry and make children.

Germany of today is very different than the Germany of 70-80 years ago. And please, do not forget: Without Germany of the 1930s, there would be no Interstate system! (or torch run for the Olympics)

There are many nations now present in Germany, and many religions. And there are many more women wearing the head scarf than in their native Turkey....

Religion is private (although it is taught in school, and the state collects the faithful's contribution on payday)

There is one way to write, one way to do math, and yes, the one accepted way to science.

And school normally lets out around 1, no school Saturday/Sunday....enough time to spend most of the week in school.

Alas, I am repeating myself.

Christian news? Good lord! REALLY?! :lol:

 

[Tgace]

Homeschooling or private schools are becoming the only means of keeping kids out of the brainwashing facilities public schools have become. Not everyone can afford private schools...especially when you still have to lay public school taxes no matter where you school your kids.

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[granfire]

Homeschooling or private schools are becoming the only means of keeping kids out of the brainwashing facilities public schools have become. Not everyone can afford private schools...especially when you still have to lay public school taxes no matter where you school your kids.

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well, you are falling for the trap billie set. Just because something is a certain way here does not mean it is the same over yonder. It just does not work that way.

But in all honesty, It's not the brain washing why private schools are so popular in the US...at least not here in the south. It's partially prejudice, and well, then there is the mater of academics. But it is a two edged sword, and I wonder if it did the system any good to allow the private schools in such a manner.

 

[K-man]

Minus your intent, I will agree with what you posted as a general statement. What can be proven as a fact, people may still disregard due to personal beliefs. But where I think we may disagree, is if evolution is indeed scientific fact that should be taught to the masses, or is it a belief system (a religion if you will)? There is no evidence of macro-evolution. So shouldn't 'evolutionism' be removed from public education? And furthermore, what about the current beliefs that same-sex relationships, and killing babies of inconvenience is part of the 'natural' behavior of humans? I don't agree with these beliefs, therefore I home school my children.

OK, I'm back. There are several issues. Evolution is just one of them. Can I say first, back in my university days I was a secular student in a theological college. Believe me, we debated many an issue. I figured that if you were going to practise Christianity then you had to take a pretty fundamental position. If you were going to accept the Bible as the word of God, then you had to take it literally. I could not maintain that position. I'm sorry but the weight of scientific evidence is so far from literal Biblical truth that I find it scary that I even considered that it was anything other than stories to demonstrate a truth.

Now you say there is no macro-evolution. I don't know how you arrive at that position. Because it is late and I am tired I am just going to post a quote ...

The term "macroevolution" frequently arises within the context of the evolution/creation debate, usually used by creationists alleging a significant difference between the evolutionary changes observed in field and laboratory studies and the larger scale macroevolutionary changes that scientists believe to have taken thousands or millions of years to occur. They accept that evolutionary change is possible within what they call "kinds" ("microevolution"), but deny that one "kind" can evolve into another ("macroevolution"). Contrary to this belief among the anti-evolution movement proponents, evolution of life forms beyond the species level ("macroevolution", i.e. speciation in a specific case) has indeed been observed multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature. In creation science, creationists accepted speciation as occurring within a "created kind" or "baramin", but objected to what they called "third level-macroevolution" of a new genus or higher rank in taxonomy. Generally, there is ambiguity as to where they draw a line on "species", "created kinds", etc. and what events and lineages fall within the rubric of microevolution or macroevolution. The claim that macroevolution does not occur, or is impossible, is not supported by the scientific community.
Such claims are rejected by the scientific community on the basis of ample evidence that macroevolution is an active process both presently and in the past. The terms macroevolution and microevolution relate to the same processes operating at different scales, but creationist claims misuse the terms in a vaguely defined way which does not accurately reflect scientific usage, acknowledging well observed evolution as "microevolution" and denying that "macroevolution" takes place. Evolutionary theory (including macroevolutionary change) remains the dominant scientific paradigm for explaining the origins of Earth's biodiversity. Its occurrence is not disputed within the scientific community. While details of macroevolution are continuously studied by the scientific community, the overall theory behind macroevolution (i.e. common descent) has been overwhelmingly consistent with empirical data. Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution

Other issues that fly in the face of scientific knowledge are the age of the Earth, the creation story etc. I'm sorry, I'm over it and the older I get the more skeptical I have become. If people want to believe in God then believe in God but believe in God in a way that is realistic. If you are going to make God fit in a box made by primitive people that flles in the face of contemporary knowledge then I'm sorry, my belief is God diminishes further and further.

Now, the post expands to include same sex relationships and abortion. Here I am old fashioned. Personally I find it hard to accept same sex relationships and abortion is something that I am not comfortable with. But I also believe that people have the right to live their lives as they see fit. As long as what they do contributes to society and is not detrimental to society then it is up to the individual how he/she elects to live. I know a lot of people in same sex relationships and I respect their decision. I do not have intimate knowledge of abortion but I would imagine it must be an horrendous decision to make. But if a woman was to make that decision, I would not condemn her.

That's enough for one night, I'm going to have a flick through the other posts and head for bed! :asian:

 

[Tgace]

well, you are falling for the trap billie set. Just because something is a certain way here does not mean it is the same over yonder. It just does not work that way.

But in all honesty, It's not the brain washing why private schools are so popular in the US...at least not here in the south. It's partially prejudice, and well, then there is the mater of academics. But it is a two edged sword, and I wonder if it did the system any good to allow the private schools in such a manner.

And it seems to me that you subscribe to the belief that people should not be allowed to believe what they want to believe or think what they want to think and that its the governments/schools job to indoctrinate children with the beliefs you find acceptable.

"The System to allow....." telling.


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[granfire]

And it seems to me that you subscribe to the belief that people should not be allowed to believe what they want to believe or think what they want to think and that its the governments/schools job to indoctrinate children with the beliefs you find acceptable.

"The System to allow....." telling.


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they can believe what they want. But they can't learn what they want.
Call it industry standard if you please. And as I said, the 'indoctrination' is a myth.

 

[arnisador]

We homeschooled because the local schools sucked. We were in one of the three local homeschool groups. Two were religious and the one we were in was formed by Mormons who couldn't sign the other groups' doctrinal statements to be in their groups. It was secular in operation. We taught evolution. The vast majority of others were homeschooling to avoid their kids learning that issue and also to be exposed to the other kids' differently religious or irreligious attitudes.

 

[Tgace]

they can believe what they want. But they can't learn what they want.
Call it industry standard if you please. And as I said, the 'indoctrination' is a myth.

The gvt always knows best and always decides in your best interest huh?

Disturbing that you truly believe there is a difference and that it's the governments role to force it....