Home schoolers denied asylum...why?

[billc]

Well, the democrat war on education continues, but this time they take it to an international level...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/16/German-Homeschooling-Family-Loses-To-Obama-Administration-Denied-Asylum

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld the Obama administration’s denial of asylum granted to the Romeike family, who fled Germany over its strict anti-homeschooling laws.


In a press release Tuesday, Michael Farris, founder and chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), said, “We believe the Sixth Circuit is wrong and we will appeal their decision. America has room for this family and we will do everything we can to help them.”
The Romeikes fled Germany in 2008 when they were subjected to criminal prosecution for homeschooling, which is largely illegal in their country. In 2010, however, the family was granted asylum by Immigration Judge Lawrence O. Burman, whose decision was overturned by the Board of Immigration Appeals in 2012. A three-judge panel of the Sixth Circuit heard the Romeikes’ appeal on April 23rd and issued a unanimous decision against the family.
In its decision, the court said that the Romeikes had not made a sufficient case and that the United States has not opened its doors to every victim of unfair treatment.
While the court acknowledged that the U.S. Constitution recognizes the rights of parents to direct the education and upbringing of their children, it refused to concede that the threats of heavy fines

or loss of custody of their children by German authorities if the Romeikes refused to send their children to government schools

were enough to classify them as a persecuted group and warrant asylum in the United States.

Yes, we will let anyone come across our border and stay illegally...and yet this family, who have gone through a legal process can't catch a break...why, because they want to educate their own children. Since the government/democrat party believes that your children aren't really your children, they have no sympathy for this family. If the German state wants to take these children away from their family because they want to force them into government indoctrination centers...errr...schools, well, they had best just suck it up and go along with the program...They will find no sympathy from obama and his union allies...

 

[granfire]

well, considering that the German system is pretty darn good, there are hardly any holes in coverage, kids of all academic levels are well supported, colleges are free....

being a jerk because you can't have your way is not a reason to be granted asylum.
And seriously, I think the majority of people ho are homeschooling have no business doing so, since many doing it largely to perpetuate an agenda, not education.

 

[Takai]

...since many doing it largely to perpetuate an agenda, not education.

And the public school system doesn't?

 

[K-man]

If they had applied to emigrate, that would have been a better option. The fact that they didn't raises questions of its own. The did not qualify for asylum, simple. Nothing to do with Obama. It should have been the same outcome regardless of administration. :asian:

 

[billc]

Hmmm...a government is going to take their children away from them if they don't send them to government schools...and the guy who illegally crosses the border to work at McDonalds gets to stay because obama won't deport him?

 

[granfire]

And the public school system doesn't?

No.

let me rephrase that:

The agenda for the (German) public school is to raise people who can function in society, hold a job and are somewhat educated on a broader spectrum and function in the political system.
The curriculum includes:
(German) language
at least one foreign language, English most often, French second.
Math
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
History
Social Studies
Religion/ethics (shocking, right)
music and art
PE
(and recess)

the lesser academic branches offer subjects that are more trade oriented.

 

[granfire]

Hmmm...a government is going to take their children away from them if they don't send them to government schools...and the guy who illegally crosses the border to work at McDonalds gets to stay because obama won't deport him?

Let me put it simple: The children will have to be educated and homeschooling is not an option. it is very similar in the US. You kids don't go to school you will be held accountable. of course, you can enroll them in a home school program. And not educate them and allow them to stay home.

Oh...and become slackers and users, etc, everything that's wrong with society.
I have seen well educated home schooled kids, yes. But I have encountered more who's parents should not be allowed to train a goldfish to breath under water.

And yeah. It's the German law.
(and not knowing the family's background, I can tell by looking at the family portrait that they are weirdos, because hardly a family has more than two kids. Having six, I am sure they get the books for free and transport. If they asked for asylum because they were persecuted for speeding, would that qualify them? They broke the law. You break the laws in the US, you get in trouble)

But you have an agenda.

 

[Takai]

No.

let me rephrase that:

The agenda for the (German) public school is to raise people who can function in society, hold a job and are somewhat educated on a broader spectrum and function in the political system.
The curriculum includes:
(German) language
at least one foreign language, English most often, French second.
Math
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
History
Social Studies
Religion/ethics (shocking, right)
music and art
PE
(and recess)

the lesser academic branches offer subjects that are more trade oriented.

Now the comment makes more sense to me. The clarification that you were referring to the "German" public school system makes more sense. I originally understood it as a generalization of all public schools. My mistake.

 

[granfire]

Now the comment makes more sense to me. The clarification that you were referring to the "German" public school system makes more sense. I originally understood it as a generalization of all public schools. My mistake.

That's why I clarified.
Considering that the US system is led by elected people, you get such tings as 'put the bible back in school' as platforms with considerable support.

But since the OP referred to the terrible Germans who would not let these people putter around on their own...professions are highly regulated i Germany. You simply cannot hang out your shingle and proclaim to be this or that when you have not formal training in the matter. There is no 'substitute teacher' profession. If a teacher is out (they are not taking vacations during school times....) a teacher with a free period will fill in or if it's long term a qualified person will be hired.

 

[Makalakumu]

And the public school system doesn't?

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic upon which it stands
one nation, under God, indivisible
with Liberty and Justice for all."

 

[Makalakumu]

No.

let me rephrase that:

The agenda for the (German) public school is to raise people who can function in society, hold a job and are somewhat educated on a broader spectrum and function in the political system.
The curriculum includes:
(German) language
at least one foreign language, English most often, French second.
Math
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
History
Social Studies
Religion/ethics (shocking, right)
music and art
PE
(and recess)

the lesser academic branches offer subjects that are more trade oriented.

The United States imported the German school system in the 1800s in order to try and create a national identity from a society of immigrants. Prussian School is definitely government agenda driven. It was created to be a tool of the state and it has produced some very interesting results, probably some things that would surprise partisans on both sides of the left/right paradigm.

 

[granfire]

The United States imported the German school system in the 1800s in order to try and create a national identity from a society of immigrants. Prussian School is definitely government agenda driven. It was created to be a tool of the state and it has produced some very interesting results, probably some things that would surprise partisans on both sides of the left/right paradigm.

yeah, well, we were not talking about the Prussian school system in the US.

 

[Makalakumu]

yeah, well, we were not talking about the Prussian school system in the US.

We're talking about the Prussian school system in Germany. I don't think people know anything about this connection, nor do they know much about why this system came about in the first place. I think all of this simply provides context for the questions posed here. If people understand that the school system here is indoctrinating their children, they can understand that the same thing is happening in the place where their school system came from.

Why would a German family try and prevent the government from taking their children to school? Here's a little more history for you.

What if you believed that the state did not own your children? What if you didn't want your children to be indoctrinated in the official propaganda of the state? Why would President Obama not protect this family in the supposed land of the free?

I honestly think it wouldn't matter who was in office. The Prussian system is something that both parties support and it's something that underlies the cultural expectations of this country. This is because of the shared connection in schooling between Germany and America.

 

[granfire]

We're talking about the Prussian school system in Germany. I don't think people know anything about this connection, nor do they know much about why this system came about in the first place. I think all of this simply provides context for the questions posed here. If people understand that the school system here is indoctrinating their children, they can understand that the same thing is happening in the place where their school system came from.

Why would a German family try and prevent the government from taking their children to school? Here's a little more history for you.

What if you believed that the state did not own your children? What if you didn't want your children to be indoctrinated in the official propaganda of the state? Why would President Obama not protect this family in the supposed land of the free?

I honestly think it wouldn't matter who was in office. The Prussian system is something that both parties support and it's something that underlies the cultural expectations of this country. This is because of the shared connection in schooling between Germany and America.

Well, as somebody who actually graduated from the German school system....

No I won't watch those videos. If for nothing else than that I don't have the time to watch a five minute subway rid when it's supposed to be about education.

Yes, I know. It's like you telling the Scandinavians and Australians what their economy looks like.
You don't know.

Obama has more important things to do than to hold a family's hands who - drum roll please - broke the law in their country of origin.
I am sure you guys blame Obama when the dog catcher runs over a dog with his truck as well. Cos, he's in office, after all.

let me repeat: the law of the land states that children have to attend school. There are many options for different school models, many more than in the US. But home schooling is not one of them. If you want to change that, you become active in politics. You do not just break the law.

it's like speeding, hit and run accidents, or whatever else. they are not having the kids taken away because they are weirdos, but because they are breaking the law. Last time I looked, breaking laws was a big no-no in the immigration process, which I have also gone through.
If the folks want to indoctrinate their kids they have enough time to do that after school, since classes last seldom past noon.

BTW, I don't think there is a constitutional right in the US to allow homeschooling. It is up tot the states to allow it and under what circumstances.

I am curious: what makes these lawbreakers more endearing to you than people who come here to perform back breaking, dirty work for pennies, in order to feed their families?

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, as somebody who actually graduated from the German school system....

No I won't watch those videos. If for nothing else than that I don't have the time to watch a five minute subway rid when it's supposed to be about education.

Yes, I know. It's like you telling the Scandinavians and Australians what their economy looks like.
You don't know.

Obama has more important things to do than to hold a family's hands who - drum roll please - broke the law in their country of origin.
I am sure you guys blame Obama when the dog catcher runs over a dog with his truck as well. Cos, he's in office, after all.

let me repeat: the law of the land states that children have to attend school. There are many options for different school models, many more than in the US. But home schooling is not one of them. If you want to change that, you become active in politics. You do not just break the law.

it's like speeding, hit and run accidents, or whatever else. they are not having the kids taken away because they are weirdos, but because they are breaking the law. Last time I looked, breaking laws was a big no-no in the immigration process, which I have also gone through.
If the folks want to indoctrinate their kids they have enough time to do that after school, since classes last seldom past noon.

BTW, I don't think there is a constitutional right in the US to allow homeschooling. It is up tot the states to allow it and under what circumstances.

I am curious: what makes these lawbreakers more endearing to you than people who come here to perform back breaking, dirty work for pennies, in order to feed their families?

Nothing actually. I'm all for immigration. I think we should remove barriers actually. The country would be better for it.

I think you're missing a good history lesson in schooling. This is important to recognize, IMO, because it will tell you why schooling needs to change in the future, but that's besides the point.

The deeper point in this thread is about who controls the children. Do the parents? Does the State? Do the children have any rights at all? Do they own themselves? Laws abound in all kinds of countries that answer this question from a legal stand point, but which answer is ethically sound? Which answer do you think is right?

Gran, what if the president said, "we support families making decisions for their children's best interests in America and will allow this family to remain. We believe in personal Liberty in America and I think this sends a message to the rest of the world. Families are more important than government ideologies and I sincerely believe that the world would be a better place if we respected this more."

 

[billc]

And again...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/18/nondeportation-rate-drops-992-percent/

The Homeland Security Department has granted legal status to 99.2 percent of all illegal immigrants who have applied under President Obama’s new non-deportation policy for young adults, according to the latest numbers released Friday.

And yet they want to deport this family...who will be persecuted by the German government. They should have come here for vacation and just not left...becoming illegal aliens...then they could have just stayed...

 

[granfire]

Nothing actually. I'm all for immigration. I think we should remove barriers actually. The country would be better for it.

I think you're missing a good history lesson in schooling. This is important to recognize, IMO, because it will tell you why schooling needs to change in the future, but that's besides the point.

The deeper point in this thread is about who controls the children. Do the parents? Does the State? Do the children have any rights at all? Do they own themselves? Laws abound in all kinds of countries that answer this question from a legal stand point, but which answer is ethically sound? Which answer do you think is right?

Gran, what if the president said, "we support families making decisions for their children's best interests in America and will allow this family to remain. We believe in personal Liberty in America and I think this sends a message to the rest of the world. Families are more important than government ideologies and I sincerely believe that the world would be a better place if we respected this more."

yeah, well, he has to fix the US system first because he gets to fix the German system, which is not broken.
There are many things in education that need to be changed, since we have now a greater understanding how the adolescent mind works (Finland is actually leading there), but no, home schooling isn't the answer.

The deal is, it's not Obama's business, regardless. He has a job to do and approving immigration applicants is simply not it.


In the end, there is a protocol to observe when you want to immigrate to the US. Playing the cry-baby card isn't it.

Please reserve your outcry over people being rejected and deported to countries of origin where they face actual threats. Like women who do not wish to be circumcised and passed off like a cheap rug or a donkey. Or face prison charges or being stoned.


BTW, you will find it conveniently left out why the family wants to home school. Just because is not a valid reason.

(BTW, fun part about this homeschooling...even though you disagree with the school system, you still can impose on it to demand the kid be allowed in the fun part of school, like band and such programs...)

 

[Makalakumu]

So, in other words, you think it appropriate for a government to take away children for simply not wanting to attend government approved school?

There are a lot of good things that can be said about the German school system, but it might not be for everyone. Why do they have to be so heavy handed toward homeschoolers. What is the big deal?

 

[granfire]

So, in other words, you think it appropriate for a government to take away children for simply not wanting to attend government approved school?

There are a lot of good things that can be said about the German school system, but it might not be for everyone. Why do they have to be so heavy handed toward homeschoolers. What is the big deal?

I see you are not following:
You cannot assume an occupation for which you are not qualified: To teach you must have a teaching degree for starters.
Second, there is no reason to not use the public school system. It does indeed cover everybody. And you have programs for gifted children that are not under the knife at every turn, unlike here in the US.

There is no reason to home school. It is that simple. Just because you feel like it is not a valid reason.
The curriculum is academic. Even notorious subjects like history are rather neutral (with exception of the period between 1930 and 1945 of course). The people do not want home schooling. The odd nutter here or there, that's it.

Somewhere the program works, while Germany is not leader in the academic field, they are in the top. I think even beating the US out by a few spots. The country is in the top of export nations still, German trained people are in demand.

However. The Issue is not whether or not Germany allows home schooling.
The issue is that Obama didn't intervene and let them stay.

The issue is that the family does not follow protocol. Neither the laws of the country they are from, nor the country they wish to live in.
They are playing the victim card when they brought ALL of it on themselves.

If you do not like the laws, you change them. Not break them.
and then claim victimhood.
They are not being persecuted for homeschooling, but for breaking truancy laws. And frankly, the US is more stupid about it than Germany ever was. I get a nasty-gram when the kid was a minute late 8 times in a school year. Let me tell you, at starting times of 7AM, that is easily accomplished! To get German authorities on your case the kids have not seen the inside of a school building in months!

The long and the short of it is, german parents ahve options other than home schooling to fill the needs. That is why it is not available.

And when you don't like what a country has to offer, you leave.
but not this way. Have some integrity.
But I am guessing they didn't qualify otherwise to come to the US 'just because'.

But I am sure it's Obama's fault that the German school system is the way it is.....


ETA:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...asylum-bid_n_3283575.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

yeah, like I said, nutters. Claiming religious persecution. Gimme a break!
The kids are in school 5 hours a day, that gives them 19 to indoctrinate them...

 

[Makalakumu]

So, how many hours a day is it appropriate for the State to demand your children?