Highest Ranked Non Korean in the world

[kuntawguro]

http://www.grandmasteredwardsell.com/


I met this guy a few years back- wasn't too impressed- is this legit?


I always thought that students call the GM a GM
the Gm does not- But what do I know?

 

[Dave Leverich]

From everything I've seen, yes, GM Edward Sell is quite legit.
I'll let the rest fill you in on the details as he's not in my line.

 

[exile]

One of our long-time members, Iceman, has studied with Gm. Sell and graded up to his current third dan under ES. If you want to know more about Gm. Sell, he'd definitely be the one to ask.

 

[terryl965]

GM Sells is one of the highest correct but the statement he is the only non korean to have a 9th Dan kukkiwon certified is wrong. GM Kurban as in Roy Kurban was awarded his as well and a few other Americans.

The fact are though he is Legit and one fin Martial Artist. Not my linage but have done a few seminars with him years ago. Nice and a great all around guy.

 

[kuntawguro]

I just remember him as an Army or Air Force guy with a studio in Ann Arbor. When I went in there I saw him in a TKD uniform covered with bars and stripes and tons of patches, but never saw him on the Michigan Circuit. Nor have I heard of him since. Just wondering. I came upon his web page sr grandmaster etc etc etc and took it as a hard sell ( no pun intended)

 

[crushing]

I just remember him as an Army or Air Force guy with a studio in Ann Arbor. When I went in there I saw him in a TKD uniform covered with bars and stripes and tons of patches, but never saw him on the Michigan Circuit. Nor have I heard of him since. Just wondering. I came upon his web page sr grandmaster etc etc etc and took it as a hard sell ( no pun intended)

I don't know much about him, but I think he has been based out of Florida since the late '70s.

 

[IcemanSK]

GM Sell is the real deal. As to Master Terry Stoker's comment that GM Sell is not the only non-Korean 9th Dan (Kukkiwon), perhaps he is not the only: but he was the 1st. Since he tested for 9th Dan in 2001, I'm sure there are others by now.

I had been lied to by a previous instructor. When I sought out another instructor, I was very leary of what may be out there. I've found GM Sell to be a man of his word & consistently a gentleman.

 

[terryl965]

GM Sell is the real deal. As to Master Terry Stoker's comment that GM Sell is not the only non-Korean 9th Dan (Kukkiwon), perhaps he is not the only: but he was the 1st. Since he tested for 9th Dan in 2001, I'm sure there are others by now.

I had been lied to by a previous instructor. When I sought out another instructor, I was very leary of what may be out there. I've found GM Sell to be a man of his word & consistently a gentleman.

I wouls agree he is a true gentleman and Martial Artist. Iceman You and me both have been lied to y a previous instructor, I was not saying he was not legit just confirming other non Koreans are getting there just do as well.

 

[IcemanSK]

I wouls agree he is a true gentleman and Martial Artist. Iceman You and me both have been lied to y a previous instructor, I was not saying he was not legit just confirming other non Koreans are getting there just do as well.

Tery, you & I are on the same page about this. Hey, I wonder how many other non-Koreans have earned 9th Dan KKW since GM Sell did it in 2001.

Anyone know others besides GM Kurban?

 

[rmclain]

Tery, you & I are on the same page about this. Hey, I wonder how many other non-Koreans have earned 9th Dan KKW since GM Sell did it in 2001.

Anyone know others besides GM Kurban?

I thought Grandmaster Kurban was awarded an 8th Dan.

http://roykurban.com/ABBA_05/default.asp?Form_Status=MasterK


R. McLain

 

[terryl965]

I thought Grandmaster Kurban was awarded an 8th Dan.

http://roykurban.com/ABBA_05/default.asp?Form_Status=MasterK


R. McLain

I just saw him at the Fort Worth International and GM Park said he recieved his 9th, just going by what I was told.

 

[zDom]

GM Sell and his wife, GM Brenda Sell, were the panel for my 2nd dan (TKD) test.

I've seen them both do techniques and have seen GM Brenda Sell do form. They are both fine martial artists and definately "legit."

FWIW, Sell not only was promoted to that rank, but actually did a physical test to earn it, unlike a lot of upper rank promotions in which the person who is promoted is just awarded the rank after time in grade is satisified.

GM Sell's instructor is Park, Hae Man, who (if memory serves) was one of those who developed the taeguek forms. Park's instructor is Uhm, Woon Kyu who is the current president of the Kukkiwon and the (Korean) Chung Do Kwan.

Does it get any more legit than this?

 

[Traditionalist]

Funny how all these non-koreans are getting their 8th and 9th degree black belts and most aren't past the age of 60, and then there are Koreans out there who are older and have been in Taekwondo since they were small and are sitting at 8th dan or lower. Non-Koreans have this obsession with promotion and even though Sells might be a nice guy and is as legit as he can be in Taekwondo I would need extreme convincing that he is truely a 9th dan in Taekwondo when it come to the true "Korean" meaning of being a 9th dan.

 

[terryl965]

I thought Grandmaster Kurban was awarded an 8th Dan.

http://roykurban.com/ABBA_05/default.asp?Form_Status=MasterK


R. McLain

You are right after talking to GM Park he said 8th sorry my bad I guess

 

[terryl965]

Funny how all these non-koreans are getting their 8th and 9th degree black belts and most aren't past the age of 60, and then there are Koreans out there who are older and have been in Taekwondo since they were small and are sitting at 8th dan or lower. Non-Koreans have this obsession with promotion and even though Sells might be a nice guy and is as legit as he can be in Taekwondo I would need extreme convincing that he is truely a 9th dan in Taekwondo when it come to the true "Korean" meaning of being a 9th dan.

Just want to say hello and welcome to MT and if you go to the meet and greet section you could introduce yourself to everyone.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Though I really don't care too much about rank or WTF politics, I'd like to make a quick response to Traditionalist's comments. From my experience, which includes over 30 years and a master's ranking from the WTF, if anything, the opposite is true. The Koreans have historically been notorious for withholding high dan ranks from non-Koreans. If there is any opening up or a reversal in this policy, it is LONG overdue. I also remember the days when in international competition, even if you pwned the Korean team member, you weren't going to win. That's why I switched from Olympic-style TKD to kickboxing, when I was at the World Games (1981), I saw a TKO'ed Korean declared the winner by the head official from Korea.

 

[Traditionalist]

Has anyone ever thought there might be a reason the Koreans want to hold Dan ranking from non-Koreans. I find that without guidence and reminders that a Korean master is watching over you, non-Koreans seem to think that it means they are now allowed to promote when they want and how often they want. And for the internationa comment it's always going to be hard to beat the home team at the home team's sport. Korean's are proud people and they want to win at their sport. If you think your going to be a Korean with a Korean official and head table thatwas probably Korean you have got to be crazy.

 

[exile]

Has anyone ever thought there might be a reason the Koreans want to hold Dan ranking from non-Koreans. I find that without guidence and reminders that a Korean master is watching over you, non-Koreans seem to think that it means they are now allowed to promote when they want and how often they want. And for the internationa comment it's always going to be hard to beat the home team at the home team's sport. Korean's are proud people and they want to win at their sport. If you think your going to be a Korean with a Korean official and head table thatwas probably Korean you have got to be crazy.

Well, what is there to be 'proud' about in winning if—as you yourself seem to be saying—the dice are loaded because the judging is flagrantly nationalistic in nature? Please note: I'm just invoking your statement here, the one coded in red. You are the one saying, it's crazy to think you can win given that the officiating is controlled by Koreans—meaning, they won't let you win, no matter what you do. Let's assume you're 100% correct in what you're saying here. So then, all that victory means for the Korean in that kind of contest is something about the geographic setting of the contest, not about the superior skills of the Korean competitor. This is something that should make a proud people proud??

That's why I switched from Olympic-style TKD to kickboxing, when I was at the World Games (1981), I saw a TKO'ed Korean declared the winner by the head official from Korea.

Let me just rub my previous point in a little heavy-handedly, based on Kwan Jang's story: if I were a proud Korean—or a proud Canadian or a proud Martian—and I won, or saw my fellow countryman win, under those circumstances, I would be bloody mortified.

Add this to the list of why there's all that contempt out there for TKD that's the topic of a still-active thread. And once again, the medicine looks to be, decouple TKD from Korean ownership. Maybe a boycott of all Korean events by non-Korean participants would be in order. It would make the point: the results will be the same whether or not we travel to Korea to compete, so we might as well save ourselves the travel fare. Is there any kind of logical objection to such an idea, if the judging is that severely distorted? Does being a 'proud people' give you license to CHEAT officially? Because that's what this kind of thing is—cheating, period.

 

[Brian S]

Funny how all these non-koreans are getting their 8th and 9th degree black belts and most aren't past the age of 60, and then there are Koreans out there who are older and have been in Taekwondo since they were small and are sitting at 8th dan or lower. Non-Koreans have this obsession with promotion and even though Sells might be a nice guy and is as legit as he can be in Taekwondo I would need extreme convincing that he is truely a 9th dan in Taekwondo when it come to the true "Korean" meaning of being a 9th dan.

I agree with this sentiment. It's also funny that alot of "grandmasters" have "grandmaster" wives,lol.

 

[exile]

Funny how all these non-koreans are getting their 8th and 9th degree black belts and most aren't past the age of 60, and then there are Koreans out there who are older and have been in Taekwondo since they were small and are sitting at 8th dan or lower. Non-Koreans have this obsession with promotion and even though Sell might be a nice guy and is as legit as he can be in Taekwondo I would need extreme convincing that he is truely a 9th dan in Taekwondo when it come to the true "Korean" meaning of being a 9th dan.

I agree with this sentiment. It's also funny that alot of "grandmasters" have "grandmaster" wives,lol.

I agree, many American MAists are preoccupied with rank and promotions. I for one really don't know if it's any worse here than it is in Korea, or whether it's the same thing taking different form in different places.

But there's something that I think both of you are glossing over: Gm. Sell was awarded his 9th dan in Korea, by the Korean TKD 'Directorate'. The same people who oversee the awarding of rank to their fellow Koreans. Note the following, reported here.

Sell tested in front of Senior Grandmaster Soon-Bae Kim, the adviser of the Korean Taekwondo Association; Senior Grandmaster Kyo-Yoon Lee, the senior member of the Taekwondo exam board and Senior Grandmaster Choon-Sung Hwang, adviser of Korean Taekwondo and chief adviser of the WTF Black Belt Promotion committee.​

It was the top technical/promotions brass of the KTA/WTF who awarded Gm. Sells this rank. They didn't have to. There are plenty of others, Korean and North Americans alike, whom they haven't awarded this rank to.

So either Gm. Sell fully deserves this rank according to Korean standards, in which case your comments about him are wide of the mark. Or he got rank he didn't deserve, by Korean standards, from the WTF/KKW ranking board which is the ultimate validation of all Korean-licensed dan ranking. What's the evidence that it was the latter, rather than the former?