Self Promotions

[Lotus Flower]

What a concept. I'm on the legit end, 26 years of Training In Kempo in the Boston Area, ( Villari's Shaolin Kempo ) but where did it all start. Two schools of thought.
You own you're own company, aren't you the CEO and you take on what ever title you want. As long as you can back it up on the mat.

Even the oldest, highest ranking GM had to start somewhere. So at some point in time, someone had to be the first to "Promote themselves" Someone had to start it, right? Even the oldest Soke. Think about it. It's like saying when did God begin to exist. Close your eye's and picture that one.

Whatever line you come form, someone was the first in that line to be the GM and promote themselves. So in essence, don't we all come form someone,somewhere that was self-promoted?

Just give me a plain, old fashioned BlackBelt, no stripes, no frills. Simplicity.

Just my thoughts,
Michael

 

[TChase]

Just give me a plain, old fashioned BlackBelt, no stripes, no frills. Simplicity.
Just my thoughts,
Michael

I couldn't agree more. Rank really doesn't mean much anymore the way it's just handed out. I'd rather let my actions speak for me rather than a colored piece of cloth around my waist.

 

[Simon Curran]

Total agreement from me, I have said before, I would rather be a white belt who can fight than a black belt who can't punch his way out of a paper bag...

 

[clapping_tiger]

As long as you can back it up on the mat.

Just give me a plain, old fashioned BlackBelt, no stripes, no frills. Simplicity.

Just my thoughts,
Michael

Man, I have been thinking of this for some time. I can understand the need for ranking above Blackbelt. Do I agree with it? No, not really. Like you said, just give me my plain old fashioned Black Belt, and forget about degrees. Let your skill and active time in the art speak for you. If we were to just give up all degrees of Black and go to 1 GM for each style that would be fine with me.

 

[The Kai]

For better or worse, once you spend years or decades as a Black Belt loyal to the same instructor (assuming there is more then one of you) the stripes give you a chain of command. Would the Army go from Lt to Commander in Chief? If your teacher spends 30+ years as a Black belt maybe running 2-3 clubs he should be ranked the same as a guy who invested 3 years?

Addotionally, there is more to it then what is on the mat. Proper mechanics, Tactics, strategy, the mental and physiacl philosophy of the system, deeper understanding of everything from kihon, Kata, Kumite and kinesology, anatomy, physical reactions (yours and the attackers), meditation, history and lastly and most importantly his/hers years of experience-with all the attendant trial and error that saves me the work. The difference is far from minor. So we are ranked the same??
Is the system open for abuse-you bet you

BTW. Some of these early guys who "self promoted", backed it up in every way (fighting, passing the knowledge). And some guys who self promote today may wind up being held in high regards tommorrow.

Todd

 

[koga ha]

What a concept. I'm on the legit end, 26 years of Training In Kempo in the Boston Area, ( Villari's Shaolin Kempo ) but where did it all start. Two schools of thought.
You own you're own company, aren't you the CEO and you take on what ever title you want. As long as you can back it up on the mat.

Even the oldest, highest ranking GM had to start somewhere. So at some point in time, someone had to be the first to "Promote themselves" Someone had to start it, right? Even the oldest Soke. Think about it. It's like saying when did God begin to exist. Close your eye's and picture that one.

Whatever line you come form, someone was the first in that line to be the GM and promote themselves. So in essence, don't we all come form someone,somewhere that was self-promoted?

Just give me a plain, old fashioned BlackBelt, no stripes, no frills. Simplicity.

Just my thoughts,
Michael

actually, you don't need a belt at all. the belt system is suspect.

 

[The Kai]

actually, you don't need a belt at all. the belt system is suspect.

Of course the belt system is suspect. By the same token it is a yardstick, a simple measurement system.

If you all don't believe in rank above Black belt, why start there why have rank at all. Ahh, So we can what tell the deiffernence between you and the newbies, right?? It's not so different with the senior black belts
Todd

 

[koga ha]

Of course the belt system is suspect. By the same token it is a yardstick, a simple measurement system.

If you all don't believe in rank above Black belt, why start there why have rank at all. Ahh, So we can what tell the deiffernence between you and the newbies, right?? It's not so different with the senior black belts
Todd

how long have you been training and what belt are you?

 

[The Kai]

25 years
5th degree
And you?
Todd

 

[koga ha]

25 years
5th degree
And you?
Todd

25 years means what? you trained 1 hr. a month for 25 years? see the problem?

 

[Karazenpo]

What a concept. I'm on the legit end, 26 years of Training In Kempo in the Boston Area, ( Villari's Shaolin Kempo ) but where did it all start. Two schools of thought.
You own you're own company, aren't you the CEO and you take on what ever title you want. As long as you can back it up on the mat.

Even the oldest, highest ranking GM had to start somewhere. So at some point in time, someone had to be the first to "Promote themselves" Someone had to start it, right? Even the oldest Soke. Think about it. It's like saying when did God begin to exist. Close your eye's and picture that one.

Whatever line you come form, someone was the first in that line to be the GM and promote themselves. So in essence, don't we all come form someone,somewhere that was self-promoted?

Just give me a plain, old fashioned BlackBelt, no stripes, no frills. Simplicity.

Just my thoughts,
Michael

Good point, Michael. I hear ya.............

 

[TChase]

For better or worse, once you spend years or decades as a Black Belt loyal to the same instructor (assuming there is more then one of you) the stripes give you a chain of command. Would the Army go from Lt to Commander in Chief? If your teacher spends 30+ years as a Black belt maybe running 2-3 clubs he should be ranked the same as a guy who invested 3 years?

Addotionally, there is more to it then what is on the mat. Proper mechanics, Tactics, strategy, the mental and physiacl philosophy of the system, deeper understanding of everything from kihon, Kata, Kumite and kinesology, anatomy, physical reactions (yours and the attackers), meditation, history and lastly and most importantly his/hers years of experience-with all the attendant trial and error that saves me the work. The difference is far from minor. So we are ranked the same??
Is the system open for abuse-you bet you

BTW. Some of these early guys who "self promoted", backed it up in every way (fighting, passing the knowledge). And some guys who self promote today may wind up being held in high regards tommorrow.

Todd

On the other end of the spectrum you have multiple level degreed black belts who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. So what does that say about the rank system? I've seen it first hand...4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th degree black belts who can't fight and shouldn't be teaching. And I've also seen 1st and 2nd degrees that could take your head off in a second and have a better grasp of the AK system than the high ranks I previously mentioned. One mans black belt is another mans blue belt. I have no problem with someone wearing their rank as long as they can back it up. In fact anyone can wear any rank they want but their actions are what show me what their real rank is.

As far as the chain of command goes...my teacher knows what rank I am, as does his teacher, and so do the people I train with. As far as anyone else is concerned I really don't care, they can judge what rank I am based on my abilities. The only thing I am concerned about is when the crap hits the fan am I going to be the one left standing? That's my opinion on it anyway.

-Tom

 

[TChase]

There's one other thing I'd like to add to this. As the wise Professor Shuras has said before, back in the day this type of thing was self regulated. If I decided I was going to strap on an 8th degree everyone would either accept it because I had the "goods" to back it up, or I would be paid a "vist" and it would be decided right there and then if I was in fact I was an 8th degree. No one called the cops or filed lawsuits...it was settled on the spot. Those days are gone and it shows in the ranking system.

 

[John Bishop]

On the other end of the spectrum you have multiple level degreed black belts who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. So what does that say about the rank system? I've seen it first hand...4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th degree black belts who can't fight and shouldn't be teaching. And I've also seen 1st and 2nd degrees that could take your head off in a second and have a better grasp of the AK system than the high ranks I previously mentioned. One mans black belt is another mans blue belt. I have no problem with someone wearing their rank as long as they can back it up. In fact anyone can wear any rank they want but their actions are what show me what their real rank is.

As far as the chain of command goes...my teacher knows what rank I am, as does his teacher, and so do the people I train with. As far as anyone else is concerned I really don't care, they can judge what rank I am based on my abilities. The only thing I am concerned about is when the crap hits the fan am I going to be the one left standing? That's my opinion on it anyway.

-Tom

This question comes up quite often. Like ability to fight is the only thing that matters in the martial arts.
Most traditional martial artists don't acheive 8th,9th,10th degrees until they're past their 50s-60s, with 25-45 years of experience. So it makes no sense to say they don't deserve their ranks because a 25-30 year old black belt could physically beat them up.
Our seniors are the one's who teach us, counsel us, and propagate our arts. They are the grandfathers and fathers in our system. They gained their positions through decades of training and teaching.
Like anything thing in life. The harder and longer you work for something, the more value it has.
If someone is in a system, school, or organization that has low requirements for promotion, that dosen't mean every system, school, or organization has.

 

[TChase]

This question comes up quite often. Like ability to fight is the only thing that matters in the martial arts.
Most traditional martial artists don't acheive 8th,9th,10th degrees until they're past their 50s-60s, with 25-45 years of experience. So it makes no sense to say they don't deserve their ranks because a 25-30 year old black belt could physically beat them up.
Our seniors are the one's who teach us, counsel us, and propagate our arts. They are the grandfathers and fathers in our system. They gained their positions through decades of training and teaching.
Like anything thing in life. The harder and longer you work for something, the more value it has.
If someone is in a system, school, or organization that has low requirements for promotion, that dosen't mean every system, school, or organization has.

I absolutely agree with you. The seniors you speak of earned their ranks through decades of hard work and in their day they set the standard. It doesn't get any more legitimate than that. What I'm talking about are the ones with little training and little skill that go on award themselves high ranks or those that hand out rank like it's nothing. To me, that is disrespectful to those that trained hard with years of blood and sweat to get where they are. And that's why I believe it's better to be judged by what you can do or what you have done, not what belt happens to be sitting around your waist.

I probably got a little off the subject on my last post but this is a subject that always hits a nerve for me.

 

[Karazenpo]

I absolutely agree with you. The seniors you speak of earned their ranks through decades of hard work and in their day they set the standard. It doesn't get any more legitimate than that. What I'm talking about are the ones with little training and little skill that go on award themselves high ranks or those that hand out rank like it's nothing. To me, that is disrespectful to those that trained hard with years of blood and sweat to get where they are. And that's why I believe it's better to be judged by what you can do or what you have done, not what belt happens to be sitting around your waist.

I probably got a little off the subject on my last post but this is a subject that always hits a nerve for me.

Tom, excellent point!

 

[The Kai]

25 years means what? you trained 1 hr. a month for 25 years? see the problem?

Actually I was one of sensei's "dojo rats" ,always underfoot-at one point actuaaly lived in the dojo! I have competed in Wis, Ill, Oh, Ind and Minn. I get your point, but my point is why not scrap the entire belt system??
BTW How long have you been involved?
Todd

 

[Bill Lear]

"but my point is why not scrap the entire belt system??"

I would say that the belt system, when used correctly, is a good way to determine how long someone has been AT the art vs. how long someone has been IN the art.

 

[TChase]

Tom, excellent point!

Thanks Joe, I hope you don't mind me paraphrasing you in my previous post.

 

[Simon Curran]

I would say that the belt system, when used correctly, is a good way to determine how long someone has been AT the art vs. how long someone has been IN the art.

Good point, but even that isn't always the case, there are some who just cheat themselves (and worse still their students) by looking more towardas the rank than towards the associated skills for that rank.