Has there ever been showdowns between the tracey system & epk system ?

KenpoDave

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No, I don't think you would be able to look at someone, well someone good, sparring and say "oh that guy is X." Good fighters are good fighters, and tend to have similar efficiency to their movement, also individual variation in fighting styles will swamp the differences between inter-school or inter-AK/Tracy stylistic differences.

Yes, Steve Finn is my instructor.

As far as visible differences during technique practice, I can tell the difference based on some affectations present in American Kenpo such as large cover out movements. I think that during free-sparring or actual combat, probably not.
 

Henry D. Childers

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Started in Martial Arts in 1964, in the early 1970's I started with Tracy's in Louisville Ky. Had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with Ed Parker in 1978 or 79 been along time . Point is He new my background and we had no problem at all. He was a gentleman and of course so was I. We all come from similar roots. The Kenpo Family is large and from what I've seen is very good and respectful of each other.
Regards Henry
 

Omar B

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Showdowns! LOL.

I remember when I was a kid of about 12 or 13 when all the kids in the area did karate and on Saturdays we used to get together after arriving home from class all keyed up from sparring and beat the crap out of each other. After a while you learn how dumb an idea that is and how many bumps and bruises you get for being stupid.

Then it became a nice exchange of ideas and techniques. That's what we should be focusing on, not who or what's better, but what makes us all better.
 

KENPOJOE

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I once had an EPAK black belt visit my school. We went out on the mat and began to exchange techniques. Basically, he would attack, I would defend. Then he would show me the closest "Parker version" of whatever technique I had just done. Then we would talk about it and try each other's version. Then we would switch.

After several hours, we were bruised, sweating, smiling, and hungry. That's the closest thing to a showdown I've ever been involved in.
Hi folks!
Dear Dave,
I had a similar experience with John Deluca at my studio in Massachusetts years ago and it was a wonderful experience! That and my interviewing Mr. Tracy years ago for my TV show opened many doors for me with the tracys. It led to my attending the gathering of the eagles [where we met!] and being inducted into the kenpo hall of fame & the Yudanshakai [Black Belt Society]. I've also been honored to teach at the event and i'm presently researching the tracy system as well. Mr. Tracy always mentions that the foundation for tracy kenpo is Mr. Parker's system [circa 1950s/60's]and both styles have merit.
Thanks to "suicide" [you play the TNA wrestling video game?], I now have ELO's "Showdown" running through my head like a rampant earworm!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
 

Doc

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No, I don't think you would be able to look at someone, well someone good, sparring and say "oh that guy is X." Good fighters are good fighters, and tend to have similar efficiency to their movement, also individual variation in fighting styles will swamp the differences between inter-school or inter-AK/Tracy stylistic differences.

Depends upon what you call, "fighting." Most mean sparring which is governed by a set of rules that determine "what" participants may do and be scored for, and as a byproduct, "what" they look like. In fighting, there are distinct differences to most.
 

Danjo

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Depends upon what you call, "fighting." Most mean sparring which is governed by a set of rules that determine "what" participants may do and be scored for, and as a byproduct, "what" they look like. In fighting, there are distinct differences to most.

Yep. Most sparring is either "kickboxing" or "Karate-tag" and it all starts to look the same after a while. Actual fights are going to look a lot different depending on how you've trained.
 

searcher

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Yep. Most sparring is either "kickboxing" or "Karate-tag" and it all starts to look the same after a while. Actual fights are going to look a lot different depending on how you've trained.


Amen to that brother!!!! I am trying like crazy to bring back some type of "nastiness" to the sparring in my region, beginning with my own school. I have grown tired of to many weaklings muddying up the MA. Time for a change.
 

Spartan

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Fascinating! I had absolutely no idea that there could be that much of a gap between hard-core sparring and real fighting. Maybe in a real fight is where a particular art/ style comes alive?
 

Danjo

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Fascinating! I had absolutely no idea that there could be that much of a gap between hard-core sparring and real fighting. Maybe in a real fight is where a particular art/ style comes alive?

Yep.
 

patfromlogan

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Yep. Most sparring is either "kickboxing" or "Karate-tag" and it all starts to look the same after a while. Actual fights are going to look a lot different depending on how you've trained.

Point tag kukai aside, good karate or ke?po to me means that in self-defense (I can't imagine "fighting") it gets kinda quiet and slow while I'm moving my body my brain and I watch and make appropriate comments on what I'm doing, I mean the conscious brain watches the action like it's a movie and realizes that it isn't running the show. The show for me, in the couple of times it seemed to matter, was over in second or two, with the other guy down. It's more of a matter of limiting the damage and violence.

Once in a bar a redneck wanted to fight and I said that if we were fighting I'd already have broken my glass and shoved in into his eyes. He looked confused so I offered to buy him a beer and talk about fighting.
 

gardawamtu1

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Point tag kukai aside, good karate or ke?po to me means that in self-defense (I can't imagine "fighting") it gets kinda quiet and slow while I'm moving my body my brain and I watch and make appropriate comments on what I'm doing, I mean the conscious brain watches the action like it's a movie and realizes that it isn't running the show. The show for me, in the couple of times it seemed to matter, was over in second or two, with the other guy down. It's more of a matter of limiting the damage and violence.

Once in a bar a redneck wanted to fight and I said that if we were fighting I'd already have broken my glass and shoved in into his eyes. He looked confused so I offered to buy him a beer and talk about fighting.

As Bruce would say, "the art of fighting without fighting."
 

seninoniwashi

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Amen to that brother!!!! I am trying like crazy to bring back some type of "nastiness" to the sparring in my region, beginning with my own school. I have grown tired of to many weaklings muddying up the MA. Time for a change.

Well, you could always hold a tournament and encourage people to spar naked… that’d be pretty nasty!
:uhohh:
 

Danjo

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Well, you could always hold a tournament and encourage people to spar naked… that’d be pretty nasty!
:uhohh:

Well, that's a little too "Ancient Greece" for my taste. I mean, I know that Pancrase supposedly went from there to India and from India to China etc., but if that's "Old School" then I'll pass.
 
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