hand position in Charyot

[J. Pickard]

Wondering how long KKW has been doing the attention position with fists at the side. Our school is currently independent, formerly US Chung Do Kwan and MDK before that, but our kids program runs KKW poomsae and WT ruleset because they are great for kids to catch on to and not overly complicated. Recently I had a student come back from college on break and His college TKD instructor taught attention position with fists at the side. I was never taught this way, but his college instructor is up to date on all KKW regulations. My question is how long has KKW been doing it this way and does WT rules also call for this way of performing the attention position? Given that both GM Sell have been directly involved and affiliated with KKW from the beginning, I'm wondering if this was a change made after we left that association. I mostly ask because I have a few Teens and preteens that have come to love the sport side of it and want to compete more frequently and I'm not sure what the WT regulation is. Whatever way I teach it I want it to be consistent for all of our TKD students and I want to set them up for success in competition.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't know for a fact, but I believe it's a forever thing. It's how I was taught the attention stance in the late 60's (although that was ITF). The ITF holds the hands further from the body.

 

[skribs]

I've been in two schools that were KKW affiliated (one in the 90s and one in the 2010s). Both used an open hand for the Charyot position. I've never even thought of using the fist for that position. My personal opinion is that open hands make a louder clap on your thigh when you enter the position, so it seems the natural choice.

I'm not a referee or a judge. However, I would think that if your kid were to lose a poomsae competition because they had open hands instead of fists, they were probably only narrowly ahead to begin with.

 

[J. Pickard]

I don't know for a fact, but I believe it's a forever thing. It's how I was taught the attention stance in the late 60's (although that was ITF). The ITF holds the hands further from the body.

Interesting. I was aware of the ITF hands out position, I just figured since I trained under the Sells and they have been directly affiliated with KKW since the late GM Ed Sell started they would have taught it the same way. I started looking at recent Kukkiwon and WT tournaments and it really seems like 100% of competitors do it with fists to their sides. Seems trivial to deduct a point for it at a sanctioned tournament but its an easy enough change that I'm sure my students can adapt to. Still interesting to see how much variation there can be amongst different schools.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Recently I had a student come back from college on break and His college TKD instructor taught attention position with fists at the side. I was never taught this way, but his college instructor is up to date on all KKW regulations.

Instructors often may be "Up to Date" but that doesn't mean all old habits were eliminated. You see this in the ITF "stylists" where pioneers and their progeny have habits from their Kwan days and some think that this must have been how General Choi intended and it must have been changed later, since their roots could not possibly have had a different method or be in error.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Instructors often may be "Up to Date" but that doesn't mean all old habits were eliminated. You see this in the ITF "stylists" where pioneers and their progeny have habits from their Kwan days and some think that this must have been how General Choi intended and it must have been changed later, since their roots could not possibly have had a different method or be in error.

Very true. I have not trained in an ITF (or splinter) school in ages, but I have been known to occasionally let my hands move out into the ITF position, usually when bowing. This may be, at least in part, because I use the ITF attention stance and bow when I practice the Chang Hon tul. It may also be because that was the way I learned to do it first, and old habits die hard.

 

[Earl Weiss]

old habits die hard.

Quick story from General Choi's lessons .
"You must teach your students correctly from the start since if they make a mistake for a day, it takes a day to fix. If they make a mistake for a month, it takes a month to fix. If they make a mistake for a year..... Hopeless. "