Ground Fighting

[Hong Kong Pooey]

No. I have friends.

Really I do.

Don't judge me.

You've got .... FRIENDS?!? Real ones?

Sorry dude, I've lost all respect for you now

Seriously though, in my experience and from what I've heard, it's somewhat unusual for people to instigate violence against superior numbers. However your experience may be different.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

Pmsl!

Thanks for this, so funny. Is there a link to the full vid you can post please?

I want to learn that style for if I ever have to fight on the ground!

 

[donnaTKD]

?

serious damage to the lower spine putting them out of commision before moving on to the other soft and hardish parts

 

[donnaTKD]

Pmsl!

Thanks for this, so funny. Is there a link to the full vid you can post please?

I want to learn that style for if I ever have to fight on the ground!

you'd better hope that you never come into contact with me and my friends if you're gunna fight IN THE STREET like that - you'd get proper mullered

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

Nope.

The example you showed for example was a boxer. Boxers never train for multiple opponents. The guy simply had the benefit of fighting in a cone where all of his opposition was coming from the front of him, so he could tag them as they came into range while he backed up. If he had opponents coming from all directions, that situation may have turned out quite different. Boxing doesn't train you to fight multiple opponents, boxing teaches you how to fight so that you can knock people out with punches. If you know how to fight well, there's a good chance you can take more than one untrained moron down.

There's a big difference there, because there's a lot of martial arts out there that DON'T teach you how to fight period.

Dude, you said I'm wrong then proved my point! His boxing training enabled him to come off best against 4 guys.

Anyway, it's been fun and entertaining for a while but I'm bowing out of this debate now as I tire of arguing with someone who reads into my replies what he likes rather than what I've actually written.

Until next time, good day sir!

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

you'd better hope that you never come into contact with me and my friends if you're gunna fight IN THE STREET like that - you'd get proper mullered

Na, once you've all fallen on the floor holding your guts from laughing so hard I can simply stroll away!

 

[donnaTKD]

Na, once you've all fallen on the floor holding your guts from laughing so hard I can simply stroll away!

LoL :lfao: we'd prolly score you out of 10 for your attempt at break dancing :lfao:

 

[mook jong man]

If you thought that was good , you should have seen the bloke in the next match.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is there a link to the full vid you can post please?

I want to learn that style for if I ever have to fight on the ground!

I don't have the original clip. Someone made a gif file out of the original clip and posted in another forum.

IMO, there are different situations for ground fight.

1. You throw your opponent and follow him down to the ground.
2. You throw your opponent and your opponent drags you down with him.
3. Your opponent throw/drag you down.
4. You go down by yourself while your opponent is still standing.

Both 2 and 3 may not be under your control, but 1 and 4 can be totally under your control. The 4th situation is what we are discussing here. Will you go down while your opponent is still standing?

Here is another interest clip.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

I'm not dismissing it. I'm pointing out that no martial art really prepares you for multiple attackers or weapons.

What do you know, it seems that some people on this very forum claim they do train to prepare for multiple opponent situations:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/63...-i-e-survive-long-enough-practise-run-fu.html

I think you need to go and set them straight

Seriously though, I forgot to say thanks for this and your other thread that I've recently posted on as they've reinforced a very important principle to me: never get dragged into a war of attrition with a bjj guy!

Cheerio

 

[Hanzou]

What do you know, it seems that some people on this very forum claim they do train to prepare for multiple opponent situations:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/63...-i-e-survive-long-enough-practise-run-fu.html

I think you need to go and set them straight

Seriously though, I forgot to say thanks for this and your other thread that I've recently posted on as they've reinforced a very important principle to me: never get dragged into a war of attrition with a bjj guy!

Cheerio

People can claim all they like. If you're not learning how to fight, you're not even going to be able to stop one guy from caving your face in. You'd be surprised how many out of shape, flabby black belts/sashes there are out there who can't even bust a grape in a fruit fight.

Compare how a boxer trains to your typical McDojo martial artist. You shouldn't be surprised that a boxer can do well in a fight, because they're actually trained how to fight.

 

[drop bear]

wtf is that in the 2nd vid ????? moonwalk on your shoulders ?????

no wonder the other guy looks unimpressed i'd just be kicking hell out of him - i mean there's more than enough to go at and his arms are pinned to the floor for balance - so nice and easy to stand on while you kick hell out of his head

It was a beej fight.

And the butt flopper won.

 

[drop bear]

You've got .... FRIENDS?!? Real ones?

Sorry dude, I've lost all respect for you now

Seriously though, in my experience and from what I've heard, it's somewhat unusual for people to instigate violence against superior numbers. However your experience may be different.

Closer to this kind of thing.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eBKecFy9jp8&has_verified=1&layout=tablet&client=mv-google

So yes but also no.

 

[drop bear]

What do you know, it seems that some people on this very forum claim they do train to prepare for multiple opponent situations:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/63...-i-e-survive-long-enough-practise-run-fu.html

I think you need to go and set them straight

Seriously though, I forgot to say thanks for this and your other thread that I've recently posted on as they've reinforced a very important principle to me: never get dragged into a war of attrition with a bjj guy!

Cheerio

And as I have said on that thread. You put 2 mma fighters against 1 in a cage and the 1 guy goes down in seconds. Generally. Unless there is a massive skill difference.

This because your 2 fighters go in hard and accept they may have to eat a shot.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkJGwLBtp8

If your two fighters are legitimately terrible?
http://www.themarysue.com/mma-batman-spider-man-robin/

 

[Steve]

I don't have the original clip. Someone made a gif file out of the original clip and posted in another forum.

IMO, there are different situations for ground fight.

1. You throw your opponent and follow him down to the ground.
2. You throw your opponent and your opponent drags you down with him.
3. Your opponent throw/drag you down.
4. You go down by yourself while your opponent is still standing.

Both 2 and 3 may not be under your control, but 1 and 4 can be totally under your control. The 4th situation is what we are discussing here. Will you go down while your opponent is still standing?

I think you've really hit on the gap and I appreciate the clarity you bring to the subject. Some people here are talking about situation 4. I and, if I'm not mistaken, others including Hanzou are mostly talking about situation 3.

As others have said, there are few situations where 1 will be the smart thing to do. If you're in a street fight, there are some situations where taking the fight to the ground is the smart thing to do. As Tony Dismukes said, there are many more where it's NOT the smart thing to do. There are likely zero situations where 4 is the smart thing to do. Situation 3 is where half the folks on this thread are in denial, frankly.

And most of those who are in denial are the same hypocrites who are the first to cry and whine about "bashing" on their own arts when anyone has the temerity to question them, while gleefully bashing the young man in the grappling tournament. Some real stand up dudes (no pun intended).

 

[Steve]

Just in case anyone wants to see the entire video. For what it's worth, the kid wins that match by triangle choke in less than 1 minute. A pretty effective strategy for that rule set. As I mentioned earlier, it works because in a sub grappling match, the guy who is standing MUST engage or he risks penalties and eventually DQ.

If the goal is to win a medal in a tournament, this worked. As a strategy, I think we can all agree that it is a bad one outside of a tournament.

 

[jezr74]

I think you've really hit on the gap and I appreciate the clarity you bring to the subject. Some people here are talking about situation 4. I and, if I'm not mistaken, others including Hanzou are mostly talking about situation 3.

As others have said, there are few situations where 1 will be the smart thing to do. If you're in a street fight, there are some situations where taking the fight to the ground is the smart thing to do. As Tony Dismukes said, there are many more where it's NOT the smart thing to do. There are likely zero situations where 4 is the smart thing to do. Situation 3 is where half the folks on this thread are in denial, frankly.

And most of those who are in denial are the same hypocrites who are the first to cry and whine about "bashing" on their own arts when anyone has the temerity to question them, while gleefully bashing the young man in the grappling tournament. Some real stand up dudes (no pun intended).

I always feel like I'm the slow witted one in these threads. Are you saying that getting to your feet is not a viable option even if it is what you are trained to do? Hence training to regain your feet is a flawed practice, and people should be training to fight on the ground?

I agree fights take on all shapes and sizes, and outcomes.

 

[Steve]

I always feel like I'm the slow witted one in these threads. Are you saying that getting to your feet is not a viable option even if it is what you are trained to do? Hence training to regain your feet is a flawed practice, and people should be training to fight on the ground?

I agree fights take on all shapes and sizes, and outcomes.

first, the ones who DON'T feel slow witted are probably the ones causing problems! Seriously, I don't get that impression of you at all and appreciate that you asked a clarifying question, rather than jump to the wrong conclusion.

Regarding your question, that's not at all what I am trying to say. If anything, I'm saying that training in a style like Judo, BJJ, Sambo, CaCC Wrestling, Folk Wrestling or some other legitimate grappling art is, IMO, the best way to train to stand up. In other words, the best way to ensure that the fight remains standing is to train as a grappler. If you're not training from the very worst positions against people who are trained to keep you there, you are not learning to stand up, even if you are walking through the techniques.

Situation 3, as outlined by Kung Fu Wang, is where your opponent throws you or takes you to the ground, and then decides to follow you to the ground. In other words, in spite of what training you might have or how effective your instructor told you your anti-grappling is, you are on the ground. Oh crap. And he's on top of you. He's sitting on your diaphragm, keeping you from breathing, and he weighs a metric ton. What now?

If it sounds bad, that's a good sign, because it IS bad. It sucks. It's uncomfortable, and it takes a LONG time to develop the coordination and skill to regain guard, defend yourself, disengage and regain your feet from under mount. In my opinion, if you're not AT LEAST an experienced blue belt in BJJ or equivalent in some other legitimate grappling art, you just don't know how crappy it really is, and are in denial if you think that your techniques will work against anyone with any training.

When a grappler discusses ground fighting in a self defense situation, the grappler is GENERALLY thinking about the third scenario, where you find yourself in the worst case scenario, mounted by a bad guy. Did you want to go there? No. But there you are.

When some martial artists, and we all know them when we read their posts, refer to ground fighting, they insist on referring to scenario 4, where you choose to lay down and yell, "Get in my guard" to a bad guy. As though anyone thinks this is a good idea. It's a reflection of their insecurity, in my opinion.

 

[Steve]

Crickets for almost 24 hours! I think I did it. I won the argument!

 

[jezr74]

Crickets for almost 24 hours! I think I did it. I won the argument!

LOL, I've actually forgotten what the question was.