Good and Bad MA spirit

[Shaolinwind]

While doing my job at Jelly Belly (customer service when not tour guiding) I noticed a girl with a Kajukenbo sweatshirt on. I stopped her and attempted to broach conversation. What I got was "I'm [famous Kajukenbo grandmaster]'s grand-daughter." And that's about it, I won't bother with details, but she was incredibly rude. I just looked at her and walked away. It was very dissapointing.

Another time, I saw a kid in a Kajukenbo shirt, this time from my school! He was a junior student so I had never seen him before. I approached and gave him a quick salute. Me - "Hi! I study under the same Sifu as you!!" Him - "Ok."

WOW! That sucks on toast. And these are not isolated events. I am the kind of person who approaches anyone wearing a shirt that mentions some sort of martial art. As a martial artist I feel that even though we may not be in the same art, we still have something big in common, and I want to be your friend. But really, I get a lot of very rude treatment. Occasionally it turns into a 15 minute conversation and an email exchange (I always refer them to MT) but that is particularly infrequent.

When I was in Tang Soo Do, my Kyo Sa Nim was very very hip to courtesy and kindness and every class he spoke of showing "Good Tang Soo Do spirit". It's a lesson I've kept with me. My current teacher does nothing of the sort, nor did they when I studied KF. I am not a master or instructor of any kind so I am not in a place to say what an instructor should or should not do, but still I feel as though something is missing in some cases.

Does anyone else have an instructor who teaches that courtesy and kindess are part of being a martial artist?

 

[Devin]

My instructor doesn't teach anything outside of technique and the combative mindset.

I think its a cultural thing. Western culture isn't paticularly friendly, so when someone approaches a stranger and tries to start a converstation it can seem strange. But it would be nice if there were more people as friendly as you seem to be.

 

[Tarot]

When I was still searching for a school, I came across a lot of really bad dojo mojo. I went and visited schools and talked with the instructors. I had a list of questions that pertained to what I was looking for in a school and the topics were important to me. The majority of the instructors I spoke with were not friendly and did not like me asking questions. They became very defensive like I was attacking their school/art. When really my questions were basic, such as:

What is your class size like?
Do you have a beginners class?

And so on, pretty standard stuff really. My opinion is that we all fall under the MA umbrella no matter what art we study. We should be polite and courteous to one another. Of course we will have opinions about certain people or a specific art, because that's just how humans are. But is it necessary to broadcast that? I don't think so. Basic manners should apply at all times.

:asian:

 

[Jade Tigress]

That's very unfortunate. Teaching respect was important in my last school. And truthfully, I don't think it's something that should even have to be addressed. As fellow human beings I think we owe common courtesy to each other. And as you pointed out, it is nice when you run into someone with common interests, whether it is in the same style or not. Chalk it up to ignorance and keep doing your thing.

 

[Grenadier]

At every dojo / dojang where I've trained at, courtesy was always a cornerstone of their beliefs, and by default, you were expected to show respect to others. You didn't have to be friendly towards them, but at least be polite.

The important thing here, is that a little courtesy goes a long way, and if this helps avoid a negative reaction, then more power to everyone involved. This is true not only amongst martial artists, but to everyone in this world.

Many a conflict could have been avoided had someone simply been a bit more polite to the other. Sometimes this means taking the high road, even if you're right, and simply bowing out of the conflict without further agitation. Even if it leaves one temporarily angry and fuming that he didn't take out his frustrations right then and there, it still serves to promote a greater good.

 

[Bigshadow]

Does anyone else have an instructor who teaches that courtesy and kindess are part of being a martial artist?

I wouldn't call it Martial Art Spirit, but I believe that is their spirit, period. IMHO, spirit is important. I believe it can be cultivated through the martial arts, however I don't believe it can be something directly taught, it's cultivation is a by-product of good training. This is where it is important to have a good heart and a good teacher with a good heart. Ego and attitude happens and everyone has a little of it, but I personally think that how bad someone treats others is a direct measurement of their level wisdom as a martial artist which is often related to their level of skill. I believe all these aspects are related and proportionate to each other.

 

[beau_safken]

I don't think its anything to do with a MA spirit, I'm gonna agree with the cultural thing.

Right now I am trying really hard to crack the shell of a native Japanese girl. They just have a very different method of operations when it comes to strangers getting personal. So just chalk it up to "Hey I'm on a tour, not getting hit on" kinda thing.

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, I've run into that quite often. We really work hard to squash that at our school and for the most part do. However, I think alot of it has to do with people's reasons for training. If its just a hobby for someone, they might not share the same enthusiasm for training under the same Sifu as you. They may just not understand it yet.

Who knows, either way its a pain.

 

[Fluffy]

Individuals are different, not all want to talk about their training - it can be very personal. As for being rude, that's just not rite.

 

[Ping898]

My instructor did talk about courtesy and respect and kindness and though I think there is no excuse for rudeness Shaolinwind, I will say in the other instance you mentioned it could just be the kid didn't know what else to say to you besides ok. Been there, done that myself, if you don't know what kind of response people are expecting from you, you tend to clam up and just give short responses when spoken too.

 

[Fuzzy Foot]

Courtesy and respect was always taught for sure. I would say don't let this dissuade you from striking up future conversations. Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret people or you could have just gotten them on a bad day. Others just never learned good manners. Just goes to show that keeping our internal control and peacefullness and responding to others as we normally would, even on a bad day, is a full time job.

 

[stone_dragone]

I am generally a open person who'll talk to anyone. If I see an indication that someone shares a hobby or interest, I make conversation. There are generally 3 things that are guaranteed to get a conversation going with me...martial arts, motorcycles and tattoos. I'm sad to report that I have had the greatest number of noses stuck in the air following an attempt to discuss martial arts with someone.

Its actually quite disturbing.

As far as rudeness...my signature gives my opinion.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Kajukenbo started in Hawaii....they were invited to a Tournament on this Island. We try to get to know them.....Even their Instructors were rude/walking thru rings..No respect at all.

They would not try to get to know others...and they felt they should have won all the events too...

My head instructor was one of the Judges and their Head Master(claim to be 10th Degree) wanted to fight him because of a call on one of his students..My Sensi (5th Degree in Shotokan) said...when we are done I will be going out that door..if you wish to continue this....They left.

They were not invited again.......Today I train in Kempo, our Professor came from Kajukenbo.....If we behave like them...our Professor would kick us out!

My experience with Kajukenbo people has not been good so far.....Aloha

 

[Carol]

I've been the rude person.

A young BB from my school ran up to me at Barnes and Noble "Hi!!!! How are you?"

I was pretty curt with her, and she politely went elsewhere.

Truth was...I didn't mean to be curt. I had a raging headache at the time and still had to drive another 20 miles or so to get home. I had gone to the bookstore in order to get a caffeine infusion from Starbucks and to take a break from being behind the wheel. But, nothing I said sounded right. When I saw her at school next, I apologized. She was great about it and understood that something must have been up.

She wasn't a stranger though.

When a stranger approaches me out of the blue, my guard goes WAY UP and I start sizing the situation up thinking about routes of escape. I don't care if they wanna talk about MA, directions to the highway, or what I think of the Red Sox, I'm still pretty damn suspicious of anyone that approaches me out of the blue.

Self-preservation before courtesy as far as I'm concerned.

However, if my personal safety is not involved, it would break my heart to be rude, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[MJS]

Every school that I've ever been a part of had always stressed being kind, courtesy, etc. As others have said, its possible that you could have caught them at a bad time.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

The world outside MT is quite different to the atmosphere inside MT as well.

Frankly, outside of other martial artists, out in public the "world" , at least in my experience, tends to be unkkind towards us.

When I was growing up( and I grew up in a very nonviolent, almost sheltered town in high school), anyone making it known that they were any sort of martial artist was setting themselves up for a gret deal of criticism and you couldn't win; if you refused to fight you got no respect, if you did you ended up in jail.

People who aren't part of our circle just don't Get It

 

[pstarr]

My teacher taught that only one who possesses real spiritual strength could be truly courteous.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I teach courtesy to my students. Problem with the old organization I was with was that I could not come down on someone even black belts for being rude and disrespectful. Courtesy and respect goes 2 ways not one.

 

[Adept]

It's got nothing to do with martial arts. Fact of the matter is, randomly approaching stranges is considered strange and rude in western societies. I mean, I'm sure most of the people you see down the street have cars and televisions as well, but that doesn't mean you just go up to them and start a conversation about it.

There are notable exceptions, such as being in a pub/club, or some instances where you are required to wait in a group. People in the same place for the same reason will often start conversations among themselves. But walking up to a stranger on the street because they have a MA shirt on? Thats putting people out of their comfort zone.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

While doing my job at Jelly Belly (customer service when not tour guiding) I noticed a girl with a Kajukenbo sweatshirt on. I stopped her and attempted to broach conversation. What I got was "I'm [famous Kajukenbo grandmaster]'s grand-daughter." And that's about it, I won't bother with details, but she was incredibly rude. I just looked at her and walked away. It was very dissapointing.

Another time, I saw a kid in a Kajukenbo shirt, this time from my school! He was a junior student so I had never seen him before. I approached and gave him a quick salute. Me - "Hi! I study under the same Sifu as you!!" Him - "Ok."

WOW! That sucks on toast. And these are not isolated events. I am the kind of person who approaches anyone wearing a shirt that mentions some sort of martial art. As a martial artist I feel that even though we may not be in the same art, we still have something big in common, and I want to be your friend. But really, I get a lot of very rude treatment. Occasionally it turns into a 15 minute conversation and an email exchange (I always refer them to MT) but that is particularly infrequent.

When I was in Tang Soo Do, my Kyo Sa Nim was very very hip to courtesy and kindness and every class he spoke of showing "Good Tang Soo Do spirit". It's a lesson I've kept with me. My current teacher does nothing of the sort, nor did they when I studied KF. I am not a master or instructor of any kind so I am not in a place to say what an instructor should or should not do, but still I feel as though something is missing in some cases.

Does anyone else have an instructor who teaches that courtesy and kindess are part of being a martial artist?

I'm sorry to hear about that. We have a Senior Moderator on MT, John Bishop, who is a high-ranking Kajukenbo black belt and he is a model of courtesy and respect.

Still, respect and courtesy is VERY important. Even the ATA, which gets attacked often on MA boards, emphasizes this.