GM Robert Trias

[Chris Freeman]

Define "pure".

Exactly.

 

[gyoja]

Exactly.

Pure:
not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.

without any extraneous and unnecessary elements.

free of any contamination.

My system fits all three of the defined requirements.

 

[Chris Freeman]

Pure:
not mixed or adulterated with any other substance or material.

without any extraneous and unnecessary elements.

free of any contamination.

My system fits all three of the defined requirements.

So you're saying that your style, whatever that may be, has no influence from any other style? That's interesting. What style is it? I would say that the two latter criteria you list are subjective, i.e., that it is exclusively your opinion. But whatever.

 

[gyoja]

So you're saying that your style, whatever that may be, has no influence from any other style? That's interesting. What style is it? I would say that the two latter criteria you list are subjective, i.e., that it is exclusively your opinion. But whatever.

It’s not an opinion, but the definition of the word. It doesn’t say that it can’t have any outside influences, just that the influences haven’t changed the base system into a different thing altogether.

 

[Chris Freeman]

It’s not an opinion, but the definition of the word. It doesn’t say that it can’t have any outside influences, just that the influences haven’t changed the base system into a different thing altogether.

It may be the "definition of the word", but it's your oPiNiOn that it fits your style.

 

[gyoja]

It may be the "definition of the word", but it's your oPiNiOn that it fits your style.

No, it is an exact match by definition. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[HighKick]

Exactly.

That is Not a definition. Try again.

 

[Chris Freeman]

No, it is an exact match by definition. Sorry to disappoint.

Tang Soo Do is the Korean interpretation of Shotokan and "China Hand", which makes them, "by definition" different from their base arts. There's nothing "pure" about it.

 

[gyoja]

Tang Soo Do is the Korean interpretation of Shotokan and "China Hand", which makes them, "by definition" different from their base arts. There's nothing "pure" about it.

It’s not an interpretation, but a separate thing altogether. Let me break it down for you:
An apple is an apple. A pear is a pear. If I combine the two, it is now neither an apple or a pear, but a third thing in its own right. I have a black belt in both Shotokan and TSD, and they are not the same.

 

[Chris Freeman]

It’s not an interpretation, but a separate thing altogether. Let me break it down for you:
An apple is an apple. A pear is a pear. If I combine the two, it is now neither an apple or a pear, but a third thing in its own right. I have a black belt in both Shotokan and TSD, and they are not the same.

You have a combination of different things, not a thing that is "unadulterated with any other substance or material."

I hope you're better at martial arts than you are at feeble attempts at argumentation.

 

[gyoja]

You have a combination of different things, not a thing that is "unadulterated with any other substance or material."

I hope you're better at martial arts than you are at feeble attempts at argumentation.

The third thing is unadulterated with any other substance or material in its own right. I made this pretty clear. Reading comprehension is key. Just because you are wrong doesn’t mean that you have to be obtuse. Troll elsewhere.

 

[Chris Freeman]

The third thing is unadulterated with any other substance or material in its own right. I made this pretty clear. Reading comprehension is key. Just because you are wrong doesn’t mean that you have to be obtuse. Troll elsewhere.

The third thing is made up of its constituent parts. What you are saying is tantamount to claiming that your mother's DNA and your father's DNA have no impact on your DNA. And you're accusing me of trolling. 😂

 

[gyoja]

The third thing is made up of its constituent parts. What you are saying is tantamount to claiming that your mother's DNA and your father's DNA have no impact on your DNA. And you're accusing me of trolling. 😂

You are stating that you ARE your mother, or that you ARE your father, and not Chris. You are ridiculous. You posts here have been intentionally inflammatory. Troll.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The third thing is made up of its constituent parts. What you are saying is tantamount to claiming that your mother's DNA and your father's DNA have no impact on your DNA. And you're accusing me of trolling. 😂

I think we all noticed that you completely avoided the question. Define "pure".

 

[isshinryuronin]

every single martial art today fits the definition of Bullshido because there are no "pure" martial arts.

Why do you equate a martial art that has various historical influences with "BS?"

Is English a BS language? After all it's a combination of German, French, Greek, Latin and more. How about water? It's a combination of H & O. Fact is, in our everyday life almost nothing is "pure" - it's a term that depends on how we define the thing we're referring to. If we define distilled water as H2O, we can say it's pure. If we add cherry flavor or salt, by definition it is then not pure.

MA is much the same. If we say isshinryu karate is a combination of about 80% shorinryu, 10% gojuryu and 10% the founder's own ideas, curriculum and doctrine, we can say that is pure isshinryu. If we now add Shotokan stances and some TKD kicks, it is then not pure isshinryu as it does not fit the accepted definition.

I hope this logical line of thought helps us to come to grips with the concept of purity. It is based on generally accepted parameters of the thing we're talking about. To take it any further is not practical and a waste of time.

 

[HighKick]

You have a combination of different things, not a thing that is "unadulterated with any other substance or material."

I hope you're better at martial arts than you are at feeble attempts at argumentation.

By that assertion, everything that exist is a hybrid. Which in most instances it true. Think element versus compound. One is Much more useful than the other, however totally dependent on the former. But at some point, the compound it considered a unit. It is exclusive and it's own 'thing'.
Any martial art is the same. Early on and later in the evolutionary stages of EVERY martial art out there, they were homogenous, evolving, and there was some blending from various elemental areas (think individual actions/exposures, military experiences, etc...). This includes personal experiences and ideas. Eventually, a compound was created and made a concrete unit. At that point forward, a unique martial art style existed. This is universally true for ALL martial arts.

This 'race' for any one style to be pure and exclusive it complete and total bunk.

 

[hoshin1600]

AI, definition of how catagorical thinking works.

How categorical thinking works​

Categorical thinking is a natural and essential process of the human brain, where we take in vast amounts of data from the environment and simplify and structure it into categories to make sense of the world. This process helps us to communicate our ideas, make decisions, and solve problems. However, it can also be a double-edged sword, limiting our vision of the world and creating biases.
Categorical thinking works by:

• Dividing information into groups: We categorize objects, people, and concepts into groups based on shared characteristics, such as shape, color, size, or function. This helps us to simplify complex information and make it more manageable.
• Creating mental frameworks: Our brain creates mental frameworks or categories to organize and structure the information we gather. These frameworks help us to make sense of the world and make predictions about future events.
• Making assumptions: When we categorize, we often make assumptions about the characteristics of the category, such as what is typical or expected. These assumptions can influence our behavior and decision-making.
• Ignoring details: Categorical thinking can lead to a focus on general patterns and trends, causing us to ignore important details and nuances.
• Creating biases: Our categories can be influenced by our personal experiences, cultural background, and societal norms, leading to biases and stereotypes.

 

[hoshin1600]

To quote Bruce Lee, (yeah, that guy again) paraphrased but close.
"I don't belive in styles anymore, there is only the human style. I mean until human beings have 3 legs and four arms, there is only the one human fighting style"

elements of fighting are punch, kick, throw,ect.
Beyond that is grouping and individual feel. To group things together is catagorical thinking which is a form of bias. To include somethings and exclude others, unless we are also using that implicit definition of "feel". This is truly defined as style. A painting is often defined by style. Not the colors or canvas. Art should rightly so be categorized by its style of feel. For our discussion, it's right there in the name MARTIAL ART.
A martial art can and should be categorized buy its base elements of punches and kicks but also its feel.
If you take a bucket of water. It's pure water. Add a drop of ink its still water. Keeping adding ink into the bucket and at some point you have a bucket of ink.
The Zen master would then point out that the bucket hasn't changed.
The style or feel is the bucket. You can take that inky water and pour it into another bucket. Then it's a different category if that's beneficial to the consensus of the larger grouping of martial art. Martial art is not dance and its not bicycle riding. Lance Armstrong doesn't care what you call your little pajama fighting. Names and groups only matter to those trying to differentiate themselves.

Just my own personal brain droppings.

 

[Chris Freeman]

By that assertion, everything that exist is a hybrid. Which in most instances it true. Think element versus compound. One is Much more useful than the other, however totally dependent on the former. But at some point, the compound it considered a unit. It is exclusive and it's own 'thing'.
Any martial art is the same. Early on and later in the evolutionary stages of EVERY martial art out there, they were homogenous, evolving, and there was some blending from various elemental areas (think individual actions/exposures, military experiences, etc...). This includes personal experiences and ideas. Eventually, a compound was created and made a concrete unit. At that point forward, a unique martial art style existed. This is universally true for ALL martial arts.

This 'race' for any one style to be pure and exclusive it complete and total bunk.

Bingo. I think it's funny how @gyoja totally missed the point when I made it but gave you an enthusiastic thumbs up.

 

[Chris Freeman]

I think we all noticed that you completely avoided the question. Define "pure".

"Pure", as I was sarcastically using the word, would mean an art that has an unambiguous lineage and is true to the teachings of the original Master, but I accepted that other guy's definition for the sake of argument.