naihanchi/tekki

[Ray B]

Fukyugata Ni is also know as Gekisai dai ichi in Goju circles.

In Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu, we have 5 Kihongata before we teach
Naihanchi Shodan. I then teach Pinan Nidan (Heian Shodan) because I
believe it is an easier kata than Pinan Shodan (Heian Nidan).

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

In our school we teach the Fukyugata Ichi and Ni then the 5 Pinan then the 3 Naihanchi.

Ray B: I also prefer teaching Pinan Nidan before Shodan, I find so many students can grasp Nidan so much quicker than they can Shodan. Honestly of all the kata I study I probably work on Pinan Shodan the most and am the most displeased with that particular kata when it comes to my performance of it!
​

 

[Victor Smith]

The best source of information regarding the creation of the Fukyugata Kata is found at http://museum.hikari.us/ Search the site articles by author, for Charles Goodin and the article :The 1980 Karate Do Special Committee: The Fukyugata Promotional Kata.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

In our school we teach the Fukyugata Ichi and Ni then the 5 Pinan then the 3 Naihanchi.​

Ray B: I also prefer teaching Pinan Nidan before Shodan, I find so many students can grasp Nidan so much quicker than they can Shodan. Honestly of all the kata I study I probably work on Pinan Shodan the most and am the most displeased with that particular kata when it comes to my performance of it!​

I teach the kata the same way I just don't teach Pinan Nidan first I still teach shodan first but I learned it different Naihanchi Shodan then Pinan Shodan, Fukyugata Shodan, Pinan Nidan, Fukyugata Nidan, Pinan Sandan, Naihanchi Nidan, Pinan Yondan Naihanchi Sandan, Pinan Godan.

 

[chinto01]

well I could not say what is happening on the east coase, where as I remember you are located.. but at least on the west coast it seems to be something that has been done... that is all I can tell you.

I am not trying to debate with you on this however these forms are not taught by Shimabukuro Sensei nor to my knowledge or to those in the current organization did he add these forms to the cirriculum, therefore it is not an east coast/ west coast thing. As I stated in a previous post these forms may have been added by an individual dojo or dojos without his knowledge. I just want to clarify to people that Shimabukuro Sensei has not adopted these kata to his system.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[chinto]

I am not trying to debate with you on this however these forms are not taught by Shimabukuro Sensei nor to my knowledge or to those in the current organization did he add these forms to the cirriculum, therefore it is not an east coast/ west coast thing. As I stated in a previous post these forms may have been added by an individual dojo or dojos without his knowledge. I just want to clarify to people that Shimabukuro Sensei has not adopted these kata to his system.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

I could not say on that. One of our brown belts went into the US Air Force and trained with Shimabukuro Sensei at his home dojo. I Know when he went there and showed him his sertificates of rank to san kyu that he was asked to show him his kata. He showed him all his kata, and was told " kata good, you are brown belt, you train here with me." I also know that he started at fukyu kata dai ich and worked his way up and Osensei did not object.. beyond that I can not coment.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I could not say on that. One of our brown belts went into the US Air Force and trained with Shimabukuro Sensei at his home dojo. I Know when he went there and showed him his sertificates of rank to san kyu that he was asked to show him his kata. He showed him all his kata, and was told " kata good, you are brown belt, you train here with me." I also know that he started at fukyu kata dai ich and worked his way up and Osensei did not object.. beyond that I can not coment.

I think that most Okinawan Sensei are more concerned about good solid karate then much else. If someone comes to them and show them something they are most likely to accept their rank if their karate is good and then work with them to make it better.

 

[TimoS]

I think that most Okinawan Sensei are more concerned about good solid karate then much else. If someone comes to them and show them something they are most likely to accept their rank if their karate is good and then work with them to make it better.

Not much experience with Okinawan sensei, but I think this is true. At least this is what happened to me. I made shodan couple of years ago and now about a month ago I transferred to Seibukan and I don't have start all over. I am still a shodan and at some later stage they'll confirm my shodan in the new style. This is because I need to learn quite a lot (bunkai etc.) and unlearn even more (just as an example, stances are deeper in Seibukan)

 

[chinto01]

I think that most Okinawan Sensei are more concerned about good solid karate then much else. If someone comes to them and show them something they are most likely to accept their rank if their karate is good and then work with them to make it better.

I would agree with you 100%. Being a student of Shimabukuro Sensei however I just want to clarify that he does not teach these kata as part of his cirriculum. That is the only point I am making. It sounds to me like the person who went to see him already knew these forms and he in fact did not teach them to him.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

I have trained with a couple instructors from Okinawa and they are more interested in ability then they are in rank. I was talking to one instructor (through a translator) who told me that the way we look at rank and the way they look at rank is quite different. To most (not all) Okinawans you're either a white belt (student) or a black belt (instructor). All the other colours in between don't really mean much to them.
​

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I would agree with you 100%. Being a student of Shimabukuro Sensei however I just want to clarify that he does not teach these kata as part of his cirriculum. That is the only point I am making. It sounds to me like the person who went to see him already knew these forms and he in fact did not teach them to him.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Thank you I appreciate that. I did not know until now that Shimabukuro Sensei did not teach those kata.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I have trained with a couple instructors from Okinawa and they are more interested in ability then they are in rank. I was talking to one instructor (through a translator) who told me that the way we look at rank and the way they look at rank is quite different. To most (not all) Okinawans you're either a white belt (student) or a black belt (instructor). All the other colours in between don't really mean much to them.​

Thats pretty much always been my impression.

 

[chinto]

I would agree with you 100%. Being a student of Shimabukuro Sensei however I just want to clarify that he does not teach these kata as part of his cirriculum. That is the only point I am making. It sounds to me like the person who went to see him already knew these forms and he in fact did not teach them to him.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

I am not disputeing that at all... I know Osensei was interested to see if the kata was correct as he was effectivaly a 3rd genreation student away from Osensei's direct instruction. He was not disatisfied with what he saw in the kata. so the kata was not changed ( at least the ones that he teaches which aparently does not include the fukyu katas from what you have said. I am fairly sure if his saisan kata or say passai or chinto kata had been incorrect he would have had corrections.. did not aparantly.)

 

[OkinawaPeichin]

Just curious who gave me this comment but didn't have the guts to sign it:


I have to disagree with your adittude toward harlan, try to use a little more tact. =)


Well "coward" I have to disagree with you. I have read "Harlan's" rubbish here and on other boards.
Having read the comments she has posted on other boards and here and the replies to her comments it seems I am not alone in my assessment of Harlan.
Maybe you would care to tell us who you are and why you value Harlan's opinion so much.

 

[Sensei Payne]

I don't know who the person was who commented on you...but I would say that if someone posts something untrue and/or misinformed...It is the responsible thing to do to show that someone that they are incorrect with precise data and research, instead of treating them with distain or hurtful words...a simple "you are incorrect" and information showing why that person is incorrect is all that is needed.

I am sorry that someone tarnished your reputation, but someone such as yourself with such a strong martial arts background will be able to make up for it quite quickly....

Karate No Michi

 

[OkinawaPeichin]

I don't know who the person was who commented on you...but I would say that if someone posts something untrue and/or misinformed...It is the responsible thing to do to show that someone that they are incorrect with precise data and research, instead of treating them with distain or hurtful words...a simple "you are incorrect" and information showing why that person is incorrect is all that is needed.

This is what I have done as anyone can see.

I am sorry that someone tarnished your reputation, but someone such as yourself with such a strong martial arts background will be able to make up for it quite quickly....
Karate No Michi

Thanks for the sniping comment.
I don’t really care about the reputation thing it’s the cowardice approach as well as the uneducated comment that I found childish.

 

[twendkata71]

Hi Andrew, Fukyugata san was created by Ansei Ueshiro, in New York. He was the first Okinawan to teach Matsubayashi ryu in the US. His creation of this kata was supposedly the reason that he and O sensei Nagamine Shoshin parted ways and he was expelled from Osensei Nagamine's organization in the late 60's/early 70's. The majority of Matsubayashi ryu people(as I am sure you know) do not practice the fukyugatasan kata unless they are from the Ueshiro lineage here in the states.

I can only speak as to what I know:

The Fukyugata katas were introduced into the Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu system to replace the Pinan and Naihanchi as beginners kata as Pinan and Naihanchi were considered to be too advanced to start with. This has also been transferred over to the Shogen Ryu system.

Now, Matsubayashi study Fukyugata Ichi and Ni, but I have heard that there is a 3rd one out there somewhere?

 

[Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu]

Hi Andrew, Fukyugata san was created by Ansei Ueshiro, in New York. He was the first Okinawan to teach Matsubayashi ryu in the US. His creation of this kata was supposedly the reason that he and O sensei Nagamine Shoshin parted ways and he was expelled from Osensei Nagamine's organization in the late 60's/early 70's. The majority of Matsubayashi ryu people(as I am sure you know) do not practice the fukyugatasan kata unless they are from the Ueshiro lineage here in the states.

Much obliged my friend for the A-rate information!

 

[searcher]

His creation of this kata was supposedly the reason that he and O sensei Nagamine Shoshin parted ways and he was expelled from Osensei Nagamine's organization in the late 60's/early 70's.

You want to talk about harsh. We have developed many kata and our instructors have never reacted this way. I can't imagine how I would feel or react if I were treated in this manor.

 

[twendkata71]

Many of the Old Sensei on Okinawa and Japan, are very strict about how their style is taught/passed on. If they do not ok something they will expell people even long time students. It happens from time to time.
Kanazawa added several Shito ryu,and Goju ryu kata to his Shotokan curriculum, as well as going to Okinawa and studying some Uechi ryu and Taichi and this was shunned by the JKA. I believe that he left on his own accord and started the SKI.
I wonder what Funakoshi Osensei's teachers thought of his changing all of the kata that he taught on the Japanese mainland?