glancing wing

[kevin kilroe]

i learned this technique where the base technique is done in a neutral bow stance only. it is kind of bizzare. anyone care to weigh in on what it is trying to teach? (besides defending against an uppercut)

many thanks,

kevin kilroe

 

[rmcrobertson]

Have to opponent throw a left uppercut while shuffling forward, followed by an enthusisastic right cross--my understanding is, that Glancing W. is among other things an antidote to getting boxed at. Provided you remember to step off line.

 

[Michael Billings]

Same initial move for either right or left uppercut.

-MB

 

[rmcrobertson]

Close, but not altogether the same; RC doesn't have that initial shot to the face...and--like I need to tell you!--it's what happens after that first punch that matters here, and it's why Glancing is more elaborate, a "more sophisticated," technique...

 

[jfarnsworth]

One starts in a natural stance the other in a fighting stance. One is a right uppercut the other a left. Why not cover the basis somewhere within the 154 techniques? You can still continue with raining claw with the left uppercut.

 

[Michael Billings]

I think the Claw is more likely to get in on Raining Claw, since you are supressing and checking in all dimensions combined with the fact you are on the outside of the arm, the Inward Overhead Claw is effective. On Glancing (which I worked last night in class since it had come up here), the right arm is still a threat, therefore the left punch also provides a positional check, which could immediately become active as the right arm comes in (whether to strike or as a reaction to your punch).

Just some thoughts regarding the Ideal Phase of both techniques.

-MB

 

[michaeledward]

I learned this technique during a seminar with Mr. Planas. At the time of the seminar (April 19, 2003) I did not know the technique. In the post, I use the name 'Flashing Mace' throughout, but that is an error on my part. As you read the notes, you'll see what Mr. Planas taught was 'Glancing Wing'.

Perhaps you will find these notes interesting.

Hmm ... was trying to link to my thread ... can't seem to figure out how ... anyhow .. I'll quote my original here ... take it for what it's worth ... The complete thread is called 'Planas Seminar'.

Mike

We were going to review some 'Problem Techniques', so Huk asked for us to put some of those problem techniques on the board. In the two hours that we were there, we reviewed 'Flashing Mace' (Glancing Wing) and 'Entwined Lance'.

As we got started, Huk pressed us to remember, our system, like all systems, is made up of 'Basics' and 'Techniques' ... and since 'Techniques' are just sequences of 'Basics' ... LEARN YOUR BASICS (my emphasis).

Flashing Mace (Glancing Wing) breaks a Kenpo rule; "Don't split your stance" ... the first move, dropping into the wide kneel, splits the stance .. which is bad, because it doesn't change the focal or target point. We can do this, in this technique, because the attack is an uppercut, targeted and the midsection and not the face.

Next, we were reminded that the finger set is comprised of inserts, which can be, and should be, put into the techniques when they don't interrupt the technique. In this case, a couple of eye flicks/slices really help position the body.

The right hand does an outward circle into a chopping punch at the floating ribs. Be sure of the target (my wife was real good with the floating ribs part of this technique). --- The Kenpo Motto is 'Speed Power Accuracy' --- although Mr. Planas feels it should be 'Accuracy, Power, Speed' (just enough speed to get it done). Then, reverse the circle, with another eye slice, as move the attackers left arm as you 'box the ear', turning the line, and shuffling into with the elbow to the side of the face/head.

Lastly, on this technique ... I think ... We grafted in some extra stuff on the end (I'm not certain, because I don't know the technique as trained yet). After the elbow to the face, we added an inward circle to capture and lock up the arm over the opponents back, which allowed for a knee to the face, or a figure 4 lock behind the back, and a couple of other moves which escape me at the moment.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by michaeledward
I learned this technique during a seminar with Mr. Planas. At the time of the seminar (April 19, 2003) ...... As you read the notes, you'll see what Mr. Planas taught was 'Glancing Wing'.

Perhaps you will find these notes interesting.

Thanks for the post.:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

I also insert similar eye strikes as the hands are moving their anyway and you might as well hit something on the way through as long as it does not retard the motion or violate any principles. John Sepulveda did the same thing at his last seminar, and it was a nice refresher. No telling who got it from where, but it sure "looks" like Mr. Parker to me. Filling the dead space, following learning the base, was how he wowed the audience at seminars. And it totally overwhelms the opponent/dummy (dummy in the Kenpo-Sense that is).

-MB:asian:

 

[dcence]

Never really cared much for Glancing Wing.

First, I never liked the first move of doing a right inward block in a neutral bow at the same time as punching with the rear left hand. Seems they work at cross-purposes; left hand punch seems stifled without rotation in this case.

Second, it is a long way around the barn and plenty of dead space between the right inward block and the right punch to his kidney especially if you do that clockwise circle with your right hand between the block and the kidney punch like I have done before and seen done.

To tailor this technique to me, in the first move, I pivot clockwise slightly to allow a little more depth of penetration for the left punch. The block is more of a downward outward with a shape of crane hand position, where the elbow is lower than the wrist. Then the right punch goes from the block directly to the lower abdomen by rounding the corner inside his left arm, without the lag time of going around the left arm.

The last two moves are pretty much the same -- you are just working on the inside of the left arm, not the outside, not unlike the last two moves of Five Swords.

The ideal technique as written is what it is, nothing "wrong" with it, this is just a variation that is more comfortable to me.

Flashing Mace (Glancing Wing) breaks a Kenpo rule; "Don't split your stance" ... the first move, dropping into the wide kneel, splits the stance .. which is bad, because it doesn't change the focal or target point.

I have not ever heard it taught with a wide kneel in the first move. But different people do it differently depending on when they learned it. Don't really know what is meant by 'Splitting the stance" in this context, any elaboration?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by dcence
I have not ever heard it taught with a wide kneel in the first move. But different people do it differently depending on when they learned it.

After going over this technique with Mr. Planas for abou 1.5hrs. I have learned to appreciate the wide kneel as it became more explosive and the technique started out more dynamic for "me" personally.

Don't really know what is meant by 'Splitting the stance" in this context, any elaboration?

Mr. Planas had us start from a natural stance much like Raining Claw. During the period he had us step forward (gain ground), step back (lose ground), and stay in one spot (stance split). The splitting of the stance was just nothing more than a third way of doing a hop switch if you will. You stayed in line, didn't gain or lose ground but dropped into a fighting stance.:asian:

 

[dcence]

Mr. Planas had us start from a natural stance much like Raining Claw. During the period he had us step forward (gain ground), step back (lose ground), and stay in one spot (stance split). The splitting of the stance was just nothing more than a third way of doing a hop switch if you will. You stayed in line, didn't gain or lose ground but dropped into a fighting stance.

I know many think splitting the stance violates a Kenpo rule. If it every was a rule it is a rule to be broken. Generally, in punches, kicks etc. I don't really think splitting the stance is going to be appropriate for a beginner. In this case, specifically, I don't agree with stepping forward first, then back. If you are going to split your stance, at all you should step back first (create distance), then step forward (assuming you have the time and want to develop a little forward momentum). If you are stepping forward first you are bring your target closer to the fast approaching weapon. That wouldn't be appropriate in most cases with an oncoming weapon.

With that said, sometimes in punch techniques where the first move calls for stepping forward, I will first do a very small cheat step back with the other leg and immediately launch forward with the lead leg. This is very explosive if done correctly. Your body doesn't move back because that would create lag time and make you slow. Instead your body drops in height just a little with the cheat step. It is hard to launch with both feet together. Look at a sprinter, one foot up, one back. We call this move a "mini-switch". You find it in Detour From Doom on a diversified angle (the kick is the step forward.)

With grab techniques I do it frequently to provide an impact adjustment. Take Raking Mace which requires you to step forward. Well, the initial momentum of guy grabbing you will push you back as his hands hit you to grab. He then reverses his momentum and pulls you. Until he does it, you don't know he is going to reverse direction. If you don't go with the initial momentum and step back a litttle, what happens if they just keep on pushing? You end up on your keister. The techniques against "impact grabs" require an "impact adjustment" (a thread I started earlier). In Raking Mace, I often cheat step back when the hands first hit me, and as they reverse and start pulling, you go with it stepping forward with the other foot. (Purposeful compliance). Your impact adjustment should be proportionate to the impact force. In Raking Mace, the cheat step is small because the initial impact is usually small.

That is just my take on the split step.

Derek