Gichin Funakoshi! How should he be looked at as far as TKD History?

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Gorilla

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So with regards to your question, "How should he be looked at as far as TKD History?", he should be looked at as the instructor of a number of the Kwan founders and as such, an indirect contributor. The same way that Takeda is viewed as Choi's instructor.

I am well aware of the controversy regarding DRAJ and HKD; I'm not dredging that up, but the fact is that HKD practitioners recognize him as Choi's teacher and don't see any conflict; Choi taught what he taught and the art evolved as it grew. TKD with Funakoshi should be no different.


Good question. As a person with a KKW rank, I'm going to say no, and instead say that without General Choi, we have no Taekwondo (regardless of how you break up the syllables). A lot of what drove the TKD movement was political, not technical, and General Choi was definitely a prime mover. Without him, it would not be called taekwondo. Probably taesoodo, kwon beop, or maybe even taekkyeon.

I think that regardless of what the donor art was that that served as the platform, you would have ended up with WTF sparring, and there were enough CMA practitioners in Korea to put a new MA with high kicks together without the contribution of karate.

Had TKD not taken off, HKD might have been the focus of unification.

We would have still ended up with WTF sparring? Interesting!
 

Daniel Sullivan

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We would have still ended up with WTF sparring? Interesting!

I think so. WTF sparring was designed to evoke Taekkyeon, or perhaps even to be Taekkyeon in a modern idiom. The only reason that the art was not called Taekkyeon was the absence of Hanmoon characters for Taekkyeon, as it is an organic Korean word for an art that was not practiced by the highly educated. The goal of either recreating Taekkyeon or evoking it in some way was there early on, and certainly long before Taekwondo's development arc completed in 1978.

Having seen videos of Taekkyeon, WTF sparring really evokes it rather than emulates it; the participants move differently, but WTF sparring achieved it's major goal of being distinctively Korean.
 

Dirty Dog

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And Jigoro Kano??? I think he was the man, because he make a new art and popularized the martial arts, I think Dr. Kano was the pioneer of martial arts.

Manny

Well, no... Kano developed a sport based aroud the already existing art of jujutsu. It wasn't a new art by any means. He also introduced Dan rankings, but that wasn't new either; he merely borrowed it from the game of GO.
 

Dirty Dog

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this is actually making my head hurt from the effort it takes to stop myself from posting......

So did your head explode when you posted? Are you going to make a post that actually contributes to the thread, maybe?
 

elder999

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Well, no... Kano developed a sport based aroud the already existing art of jujutsu. It wasn't a new art by any means. He also introduced Dan rankings, but that wasn't new either; he merely borrowed it from the game of GO.

Kano didn't really intend it to be the sport it's developed into since then, either-what Kano did, and what his intention was, was to make a system for teaching jujutsu that could be taught in schools, practiced lifelong, and fostered good character:

Kanô Jigorô said:
'The purpose of judo is to perfect oneself physically, intellectually and morally for benefit of society"

Something of a social Darwinist, actually....
 

Dirty Dog

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Kano didn't really intend it to be the sport it's developed into since then, either-what Kano did, and what his intention was, was to make a system for teaching jujutsu that could be taught in schools, practiced lifelong, and fostered good character:



Something of a social Darwinist, actually....

Pretty common attitude. Isn't that the stated goal of pretty much every traditional martial art?
 

StudentCarl

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On Social Darwinism and martial arts:

Isn't it irresponsible (or worse) to teach technique without also working on the character and judgment to use it responsibly?

I think it's a parallel to the idea that an armed society is a polite society. If more people trained in TMA, I'd expect to see more behavior consistent with the five tenets.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

tshadowchaser

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Back in the late 60's any Korean master I spoke with never mentioned any history they just taught, They also never mentioned any other style or system of self defense from Korea unless they where asked about that system and then all you got was "its not worth studying".
To ask, back then, if a Japanese could be considered the originator of there style or even remotely connected to their style was an insult to them
Having made these statements I think Gichin Funakkoski should be included in the history of Korean arts for the part he played in bringing striking arts to the land and helping to formulate the arts into what they are today
[h=2][/h]
 

Earl Weiss

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Back in the late 60's any Korean master I spoke with never mentioned any history they just taught, They also never mentioned any other style or

Never tried to speak with any in the 1960's but in the 1970's most I enounterd spoke little or poor english so they said little except "not like this, like this."
 

oftheherd1

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Back in the late 60's any Korean master I spoke with never mentioned any history they just taught, ...

The only master I knew was Jhoon Goo Rhee. It never occurred to me there were different styles in Korea MA, so I never asked, and I don't recall it ever being mentioned.
 

Dirty Dog

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Never tried to speak with any in the 1960's but in the 1970's most I enounterd spoke little or poor english so they said little except "not like this, like this."

I spent some time training under a Master who, as you point out, didn't speak English at all well. He had a very heavy accent and you really had to pay attention. But there was one thing he could say with virtually no accent whatsoever.
"Wrong, dumbass!", generally followed by a (non-painful) smack upside the head.

I don't know that he actually understood what he was saying, but it was clear.
 

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