1960's 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms united to create Taekwondo in relation to Pasa-Gwonbeop & Karate

[Steven Lee]

==1960's 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms united to create Taekwondo in relation to Pasa-Gwonbeop & Karate==


Taekwondo is a mix of Gwonbeop gym & Karate gyms. The following 5 Gwan gyms were the most famous & the earliest in Taekwondo history. Later, these became 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms (particularly with the Gwonbeop gym's expansion into 4 more Gwan/Kwan/Gym), which united in 1960's to become Taekwondo. Taekwondo is a mix of 4 Karate gyms & 5 Gwonbeop gyms. YMCA Gwonbeop Club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate; there is an old publication called "Pasa-Gwonbeop" by Cheolheui Park which contained what was taught at the YMCA Gwonbeop Club. It includes postures similar to Taekwondo/Karate such as Taekwondo/Karate punch (which already existed in Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop), but it also includes postures very different from Taekwondo/Karate.

Chung Do Kwan - founded by Lee Won Kuk. Trained in Shotokan by Gichin and Gigo Funakoshi. In 1944, He was granted permission by the Japanese Governor and General to begin teaching Karate in Seoul.

Song Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Ro Byung Jick. Studied karate under Gichin Funakoshi along with Chung Do Kwan founder Lee Won Kuk in Japan.

Moo Duk Kwan - Founded in 1945 by Hwang Kee. Trained Chinese kung fu and japanese karate.

Ji Do Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Chun Sang Sup. Studied Shotokan karate with Gichin Funakoshi in Japan.

Chang Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Yoon Byung-in and taught Gwonbub in YMCA.

There are visual differences between Korean Gwonbeop & the original Chinese Quan Fa. The following is the 300 years old Korean pictures on Korean Gwonbub/Gwonbeop.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgdlTKW0AAkVDl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LwjGIti.png

Mas Oyama also recorded in his book about Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop

https://mookas.com/news/9586

Quoting the book "Gwan/Gym Oriented Retrospect on Taekwondo Creation History" by Cheolheui Park: "I was preteen when I first met Taekwondo. At the time, the person who taught Taekwondo (I learned from YMCA Gwonbeop club, which called it Gwonbeop) was master Byungin Yoon.", "After Korea was liberated, Master (Yoon) was a gym teacher in Gyungsung Agriculture school, taught his martial art. Later, he moved to Gyungdong Middle School. Even Woonyong Kim who was the WTF Taekwondo president learned Gwonbub in that school.", "In 1946, at Seoul Jongro's YMCA, Byungin Yoon established a Gwonbeop club then started teaching martial art seriously. Originally, master Yoon taught at Chosunyeonmukwan Gwonbeop club with master Sangseob Jeon.", "The Gwans that came out of YMCA Gwonbub Club are the following. Jungpyo Hong opened Mudowon; I took over & changed its name to Gangdukwon. Namsuk Lee & Soonbae Kim's Changmugwan. Dongju Lee's Gangmugwan, etc. Namseok's Lee's student opened Choongmugwan. Sungkyunkwan University's captain also opened a Dojang/Dojo.", "Honghi Choi, the founder of ITF Taekwondo also visited YMCA Gwonbub Club time to time.", "YMCA Gwonbub club created Changmugwan & Gangdeokwon". Cheolheui Park was born in 1933. Trained Gwonbub in YMCA Gwonbub club. After the Korean war, started Gangdeokwon. He was the Taekwondo teacher in Military Army School, Gyungmudae Martial Art teacher, Daehan Taesudo Federation's Executive Secretary.

m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69


"'백만인의 가라테'의 저자 소개를 보면, 그는 9세 경에 권법을 배워 중학 2년에 초단이 되었다고 하고 있어 권법을 배웠다고 할 수 있다. 하지만, 전 세계의 무예를 소개하는 내용에는 조선의 무예를 서술하면서 그 특징으로 박치기와 머리카락(댕기머리?) 치기, 어깨치기 등의 특이한 기법이 있었다고 하며 발을 사용하는 소년과 선비의 대결 모습을 그림으로 표현하면서, ‘조선권법’이라고 기재하고 있어".




https://mookas.com/news/9586




Translation: "In the author biography in the book '1 Million's Karate', Oyama learned Gwonbub at age 9, he became black belt in the 2nd grade of middle school. It can be said that he learned Gwonbeop. In his contents introducing martial arts of the world, he described Korean martial art. In characteristics, there are headbutt, hair strike, shoulder strike, etc special techniques. He showed a picture of a boy and a man kicking; he called it Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop."


Cheolheui Park published a book called Pasa-Gwonbeop when he was young. The book includes Gibonhyung 1~5 and Jeonggonghyung 1 which were done in YMCA Gwonbeop Club. Pasa-Gwonbeop has many postures looking similar to Taekwondo/Karate (such as Taekwondo/Karate punch) while also having postures looking distinct from it. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate.

http://m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69

http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile206/R400x0/1625E43F5115E0C82E2C74



http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile205/R400x0/2551093F5115E0C9083E88


http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile228/R400x0/1432E03F5115E0C924437B


Gwonbeop, which started 300 years ago by Muyedobotongji in Korea, existed in Korea even 100 years ago such as Mas Oyama's middle school years. It is unclear when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop, but he must have learned it at some point of time to teach Gwonbeop. Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop (published when he was young) looks somewhat different from Muyedobotongji Gweonbeop, which could be from Byungin Yoon's Kung Fu experience.



Byungin Yoon was also involved in the development of North Korean Gyuksul. North Korea has a fight game called Kyuksul. According to historical records referred by Mookas martial art magazine, "the earlier contests were about the same as boxing, but in 1987's 7th contest, it evolved to the level of kickboxing." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnvIcdeXsAAQ2Ae.jpg


Gyuksul was originally from Subak. In the new Gyuksul rules & techniques, Gyuksul also resembles Sibak (Korean street fighting games) & Gwonbeop (Muyedobotongji).




https://i.imgur.com/aGQ9L8O.png




https://i.imgur.com/z7RaPQ2.png




https://i.imgur.com/Bs0T0Ij.png




Those 3 pictures are Gyuksul moves. There are similar moves in Korean Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop, except that Gwonbub's wild swing with shoulder-push uses vertical fist while Gyuksul uses horizontal fist. Those 3 pictures resemble these two 300 years old Korean Gwonbeop pictures. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg




North Korean Gyuksul started from Subak. Then it evolved to be like Sibak & Gwonbeop by the influence of Byungin Yoon and his art Gwonbeop taught at YMCA, which became a root of Taekwondo. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop different from Karate is shown by Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop published when he was young. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop influenced both Taekwondo & Gyuksul; the influence is from Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop.

 

[Steven Lee]

Chang Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Yoon Byung-in and taught Gwonbub in YMCA. It is unclear when & how Byungin Yoon trained Karate. He was given 5th Dan in Karate while in college; he only spent his college years exposed to Karate. Regardless, he was trained in Gwonbeop & Kung Fu as well; he taught Gwonbeop. And Gwonbeop is from Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop. That Gwonbeop was published under the name Pasa-Gwonbeop by Cheolheui Park.

I'm just spreading contents. I won't be hear to talk back to you. This website avoids proving counter-logic & counter-evidence too often. You just spam GIF pictures of slapping hands & slapping opponents, then pretend as if you just won a fact war. When you explicitly say what you mean, it sounds stupid, illogical, wrong. All my sources are reputable by Wikipedia:Reliable sources - Wikipedia standard, which is the same in all academic outlets. My sources (including archaeological pictures) are from scholarship & news organizations. Also, I'm limited in computer time, so, don't bother spamming nonsense implicitly instead of providing counter-evidence & counter-logic explicitly. You have to say what you mean explicitly to know whether you sound illogical, wrong, stupid. And spamming hand slap & opponent slap GIF pictures sounds stupid when you explicitly say what you mean. The same goes for all other topics. On the other hand, all my sources & references are reputable by academic standard including Wiki standard. Scholarship & news organizations.

 

[CB Jones]

Yoon Byung-in and taught Gwonbub

When and Where did he learn Gwoneoup?

He was raised in China where he studied kung fu and then learned karate in college.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Still trying to push this nonsense, huh?

 

[elder999]

==1960's 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms united to create Taekwondo in relation to Pasa-Gwonbeop & Karate==


Taekwondo is a mix of Gwonbeop gym & Karate gyms. The following 5 Gwan gyms were the most famous & the earliest in Taekwondo history. Later, these became 9 Gwan/Kwan/Gyms (particularly with the Gwonbeop gym's expansion into 4 more Gwan/Kwan/Gym), which united in 1960's to become Taekwondo. Taekwondo is a mix of 4 Karate gyms & 5 Gwonbeop gyms. YMCA Gwonbeop Club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate; there is an old publication called "Pasa-Gwonbeop" by Cheolheui Park which contained what was taught at the YMCA Gwonbeop Club. It includes postures similar to Taekwondo/Karate such as Taekwondo/Karate punch (which already existed in Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop), but it also includes postures very different from Taekwondo/Karate.

Chung Do Kwan - founded by Lee Won Kuk. Trained in Shotokan by Gichin and Gigo Funakoshi. In 1944, He was granted permission by the Japanese Governor and General to begin teaching Karate in Seoul.

Song Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Ro Byung Jick. Studied karate under Gichin Funakoshi along with Chung Do Kwan founder Lee Won Kuk in Japan.

Moo Duk Kwan - Founded in 1945 by Hwang Kee. Trained Chinese kung fu and japanese karate.

Ji Do Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Chun Sang Sup. Studied Shotokan karate with Gichin Funakoshi in Japan.

Chang Moo Kwan - Founded in 1946 by Yoon Byung-in and taught Gwonbub in YMCA.

There are visual differences between Korean Gwonbeop & the original Chinese Quan Fa. The following is the 300 years old Korean pictures on Korean Gwonbub/Gwonbeop.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgdlTKW0AAkVDl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LwjGIti.png

Mas Oyama also recorded in his book about Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop

https://mookas.com/news/9586

Quoting the book "Gwan/Gym Oriented Retrospect on Taekwondo Creation History" by Cheolheui Park: "I was preteen when I first met Taekwondo. At the time, the person who taught Taekwondo (I learned from YMCA Gwonbeop club, which called it Gwonbeop) was master Byungin Yoon.", "After Korea was liberated, Master (Yoon) was a gym teacher in Gyungsung Agriculture school, taught his martial art. Later, he moved to Gyungdong Middle School. Even Woonyong Kim who was the WTF Taekwondo president learned Gwonbub in that school.", "In 1946, at Seoul Jongro's YMCA, Byungin Yoon established a Gwonbeop club then started teaching martial art seriously. Originally, master Yoon taught at Chosunyeonmukwan Gwonbeop club with master Sangseob Jeon.", "The Gwans that came out of YMCA Gwonbub Club are the following. Jungpyo Hong opened Mudowon; I took over & changed its name to Gangdukwon. Namsuk Lee & Soonbae Kim's Changmugwan. Dongju Lee's Gangmugwan, etc. Namseok's Lee's student opened Choongmugwan. Sungkyunkwan University's captain also opened a Dojang/Dojo.", "Honghi Choi, the founder of ITF Taekwondo also visited YMCA Gwonbub Club time to time.", "YMCA Gwonbub club created Changmugwan & Gangdeokwon". Cheolheui Park was born in 1933. Trained Gwonbub in YMCA Gwonbub club. After the Korean war, started Gangdeokwon. He was the Taekwondo teacher in Military Army School, Gyungmudae Martial Art teacher, Daehan Taesudo Federation's Executive Secretary.

m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69


"'백만인의 가라테'의 저자 소개를 보면, 그는 9세 경에 권법을 배워 중학 2년에 초단이 되었다고 하고 있어 권법을 배웠다고 할 수 있다. 하지만, 전 세계의 무예를 소개하는 내용에는 조선의 무예를 서술하면서 그 특징으로 박치기와 머리카락(댕기머리?) 치기, 어깨치기 등의 특이한 기법이 있었다고 하며 발을 사용하는 소년과 선비의 대결 모습을 그림으로 표현하면서, ‘조선권법’이라고 기재하고 있어".




https://mookas.com/news/9586




Translation: "In the author biography in the book '1 Million's Karate', Oyama learned Gwonbub at age 9, he became black belt in the 2nd grade of middle school. It can be said that he learned Gwonbeop. In his contents introducing martial arts of the world, he described Korean martial art. In characteristics, there are headbutt, hair strike, shoulder strike, etc special techniques. He showed a picture of a boy and a man kicking; he called it Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop."


Cheolheui Park published a book called Pasa-Gwonbeop when he was young. The book includes Gibonhyung 1~5 and Jeonggonghyung 1 which were done in YMCA Gwonbeop Club. Pasa-Gwonbeop has many postures looking similar to Taekwondo/Karate (such as Taekwondo/Karate punch) while also having postures looking distinct from it. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate.

http://m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69

http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile206/R400x0/1625E43F5115E0C82E2C74



http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile205/R400x0/2551093F5115E0C9083E88


http://m1.daumcdn.net/cfile228/R400x0/1432E03F5115E0C924437B


Gwonbeop, which started 300 years ago by Muyedobotongji in Korea, existed in Korea even 100 years ago such as Mas Oyama's middle school years. It is unclear when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop, but he must have learned it at some point of time to teach Gwonbeop. Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop (published when he was young) looks somewhat different from Muyedobotongji Gweonbeop, which could be from Byungin Yoon's Kung Fu experience.



Byungin Yoon was also involved in the development of North Korean Gyuksul. North Korea has a fight game called Kyuksul. According to historical records referred by Mookas martial art magazine, "the earlier contests were about the same as boxing, but in 1987's 7th contest, it evolved to the level of kickboxing." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnvIcdeXsAAQ2Ae.jpg


Gyuksul was originally from Subak. In the new Gyuksul rules & techniques, Gyuksul also resembles Sibak (Korean street fighting games) & Gwonbeop (Muyedobotongji).




https://i.imgur.com/aGQ9L8O.png




https://i.imgur.com/z7RaPQ2.png




https://i.imgur.com/Bs0T0Ij.png




Those 3 pictures are Gyuksul moves. There are similar moves in Korean Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop, except that Gwonbub's wild swing with shoulder-push uses vertical fist while Gyuksul uses horizontal fist. Those 3 pictures resemble these two 300 years old Korean Gwonbeop pictures. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg




North Korean Gyuksul started from Subak. Then it evolved to be like Sibak & Gwonbeop by the influence of Byungin Yoon and his art Gwonbeop taught at YMCA, which became a root of Taekwondo. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop different from Karate is shown by Cheolheui Park's Pasa-Gwonbeop published when he was young. Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop influenced both Taekwondo & Gyuksul; the influence is from Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop.

http://www.martialtalk.com/threads/...ng-1966-look-like.116735/page-15#post-1701429

 

[elder999]

curious

 

[punisher73]

You seem to be missing the big key component. Even in your thread title it says that the various kwans were united. They created "TKD" based on their experience in Japanese karate, kung fu and what was left over from the ancient arts that were LOST (which was mostly the sporting aspects of it). There has been no Korean martial art taught through the years unbroken and survived as a whole martial art to be taught. The high kicks that TKD are known for were added in to make it "more Korean" based on the older arts when they made TKD.

There is a reason that when TKD first came into existence all of the kata were straight out of Shotokan. It wasn't until years later that these kata were abandoned and replaced with Korean forms that were made up to fill the void. As time as gone on, more and more history is being re-wrote as to the origins of the original 9 kwans and the art of TKD is being passed off as an ancient Korean martial art. This isn't the truth. Just be honest and say that some elements were incorporated into TKD from ancient arts that are no longer around.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Here we go again

 

[Steven Lee]

I'm not saying Taekwondo didn't mix with Karate. I'm saying the 9 gyms/Gwan that united included Gwonbeop gyms. I have no idea when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop. But he taught it, so he must have learned it. Also, old publication book Pasa-Gwonbeop contains what was taught at YMCA Gwonbeop club. Maybe Byungin Yoon learned it before he went to China or after he came back from China.

 

[Steven Lee]

Here's the later version of the thread I uploaded on reddit. Bigger pictures on Pasa-Gwonbeop too.

The term and the sport Gwonbeop (권법, 拳法) started 300 years ago in Korea by editing Chinese Quan Fa and mixing Subak with it; this became Taekwondo.

The term and the sport Gwonbeop (권법, 拳法) started 300 years ago in Korea by editing Chinese Quan Fa and mixing Subak with it. This was done by a 300 years old Korean martial art textbook Muyedobotongji. Gwonbeop was taught in Korea at YMCA Gwonbeop club in the mid 20th century which used the name Gwonbeop like Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop. After Gwonbeop was mixed with Karate, Taekwondo was started in the 1960's by the 9 gyms involving Gwonbeop & Karate. Cheolheui Park published a book called Pasa-Gwonbeop when he was young. Besides Okinawan Karate's Kata, the book Pasa-Gwonbeop also includes Gibonhyung 1~5 and Jeonggonghyung 1 which were done in YMCA Gwonbeop Club before Pasa-Gwonbeop was published. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop (included in the book Pasa-Gwonbeop) has many postures looking similar to Taekwondo/Karate (such as Taekwondo/Karate punch, which already existed in 300 years old Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop pictures) while also having postures looking distinct from it. YMCA Gwonbeop club's Gwonbeop was different from Karate.

http://m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxr4Cn5UwAQ6fR6.jpg



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxr4E1JUYAIOX-N.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxr4HYDUcAUaNIz.jpg

There are visual differences between Korean Gwonbeop & the original Chinese Quan Fa. The following is the 300 years old Korean pictures on Korean Gwonbub/Gwonbeop.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgdlTKW0AAkVDl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LwjGIti.png


Quoting the book "Gwan/Gym Oriented Retrospect on Taekwondo Creation History" by Cheolheui Park: "I was preteen when I first met Taekwondo. At the time, the person who taught Taekwondo (I learned from YMCA Gwonbeop club, which called it Gwonbeop) was master Byungin Yoon.", "After Korea was liberated, Master (Yoon) was a gym teacher in Gyungsung Agriculture school, taught his martial art. Later, he moved to Gyungdong Middle School. Even Woonyong Kim who was the WTF Taekwondo president learned Gwonbub in that school.", "In 1946, at Seoul Jongro's YMCA, Byungin Yoon established a Gwonbeop club then started teaching martial art seriously. Originally, master Yoon taught at Chosunyeonmukwan Gwonbeop club with master Sangseob Jeon.", "The Gwans that came out of YMCA Gwonbub Club are the following. Jungpyo Hong opened Mudowon; I took over & changed its name to Gangdukwon. Namsuk Lee & Soonbae Kim's Changmugwan. Dongju Lee's Gangmugwan, etc. Namseok's Lee's student opened Choongmugwan. Sungkyunkwan University's captain also opened a Dojang/Dojo.", "Honghi Choi, the founder of ITF Taekwondo also visited YMCA Gwonbub Club time to time.", "YMCA Gwonbub club created Changmugwan & Gangdeokwon". Cheolheui Park was born in 1933. Trained Gwonbub in YMCA Gwonbub club. After the Korean war, started Gangdeokwon. He was the Taekwondo teacher in Military Army School, Gyungmudae Martial Art teacher, Daehan Taesudo Federation's Executive Secretary.

m.blog.daum.net/teams684/69


"'백만인의 가라테'의 저자 소개를 보면, 그는 9세 경에 권법을 배워 중학 2년에 초단이 되었다고 하고 있어 권법을 배웠다고 할 수 있다. 하지만, 전 세계의 무예를 소개하는 내용에는 조선의 무예를 서술하면서 그 특징으로 박치기와 머리카락(댕기머리?) 치기, 어깨치기 등의 특이한 기법이 있었다고 하며 발을 사용하는 소년과 선비의 대결 모습을 그림으로 표현하면서, ‘조선권법’이라고 기재하고 있어".




https://mookas.com/news/9586




Translation: "In the author biography in the book '1 Million's Karate', Oyama learned Gwonbub at age 9, he became black belt in the 2nd grade of middle school. It can be said that he learned Gwonbeop. In his contents introducing martial arts of the world, he described Korean martial art. In characteristics, there are headbutt, hair strike, shoulder strike, etc special techniques. He showed a picture of a boy and a man kicking; he called it Chosun(Korean)-Gwonbeop."

 

[CB Jones]

I'm not saying Taekwondo didn't mix with Karate. I'm saying the 9 gyms/Gwan that united included Gwonbeop gyms. I have no idea when Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop. But he taught it, so he must have learned it. Also, old publication book Pasa-Gwonbeop contains what was taught at YMCA Gwonbeop club. Maybe Byungin Yoon learned it before he went to China or after he came back from China.

His parents left Korea before he was born. He was born and trained in martial arts in China and Japan.

Chances are he re-created gwonbub based on his training of kung fu and karate and named it Gwonbeop.

 

[Steven Lee]

Talking about Byungin Yoon? That's a possibility with no proof backing it up. Or, he learned Gwonbeop and taught Gwonbeop. Pasa-Gwonbeop book (published long time ago) recorded some of the moves done at YMCA Gwonbeop club. The hard fact is that Korean Gwonbeop had existed for 300 years; the hard fact is that Byungin Yoon taught an art called Gwonbeop with very unique moves included. There were and there are a lot of Koreans in Manchuria. He could have learned Korean Gwonbeop from any of them.

Whether Byungin Yoon taught a hybrid art or not, Gwonbeop lineage is still there. Karate influence doesn't change by whether Byungin Yoon taught any Karate move or not because Karate gyms were involved in the 9 gyms/Gwan which became Taekwondo. As a bonus fact, there's no reasonable ground to assume Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop was influenced by Karate.

It's possible that Byungin Yoon learned Quan Fa then taught his version of Quan Fa's variation under the name Gwonbeop. The people who learned from him mistook Gwonbeop as Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop probably. People called him 18ki as a nickname, which refers to Muyedobotongji in Korea. Korean doesn't use Chinese pronunciation. Korean pronounces Chinese Quan Fa as Gwon Beop. People who have witnessed him testify that Byungin Yoon knew many various Hyung/Kata and it is suspected that he learned many martial arts in Manchuria. One of them could involve Korean Gwonbeop. Mas Oyama also testified Korean Gwonbeop existed even 100 years ago in Korea.

 

[CB Jones]

Talking about Byungin Yoon? That's a possibility with no proof backing it up. Or, he learned Gwonbeop and taught Gwonbeop. Pasa-Gwonbeop book (published long time ago) recorded some of the moves done at YMCA Gwonbeop club. The hard fact is that Korean Gwonbeop had existed for 300 years; the hard fact is that Byungin Yoon taught an art called Gwonbeop with very unique moves included.

Whether Byungin Yoon taught a hybrid art or not, Gwonbeop lineage is still there. Karate influence doesn't change by whether Byungin Yoon taught any Karate move or not because Karate gyms were involved in the 9 gyms/Gwan which became Taekwondo. As a bonus fact, there's no reasonable ground to assume Byungin Yoon's Gwonbeop was influenced by Karate.

The hard facts is there is no link between gwonbub 300 years ago and TKD. You have no info on who or even if Byungin Yoon ever was trained in gwonbub. The only thing that is known is he trained in Kung fu and Karate then moved to Korea where he started teaching his style which he called gwonbeop.

That is the facts

 

[Steven Lee]

If he taught Gwonbeop, then he learned Gwonbeop. It's just that his personal history is not accessible to the public. That's what I'm saying. Also, there is only 1 art called Gwonbeop in South Korea; it is Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop from 300 years ago. Also, the postures from Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop and today's Karate/Taekwondo are also similar. Generally speaking, without accusing anything, if someone claims to teach Gwonbeop then he was teaching Gwonbeop which he learned under the name Gwonbeop. Anything otherwise is an accusation. Direct interpretation is that Byungin Yoon learned Gwonbeop somehow. There were many Koreans in Manchuria anyway.

And 9 gyms united in 1960's to start Taekwondo, many of them are of Byungin Yoon's influence. (Not the first 5 gyms but the 9 gyms afterward.)

I already said a couple of these things, but to recap:
1. I'm Korean.
2. I have hostility to Japan. But please no bias in my actual contents & the evaluation of sources. Whether I'm right or not is a happy coincidence.
3. I have no love for Taekwondo. It's tainted by Karate regardless of Gwonbeop's nature.
4. I'm not motivated by what some of you people are motivated by, including Gwonbeop's nature or whatever "facts" are decided on Taekwondo. I have absolutely 0 love or respect for Taekwondo. If anything, I think Taekwondo is stealing the rightful position, seat, place for Taekkyeon. Also, Taekkyeon has punching techniques in its Sibak (also Taekkyeon) moves. Taekkyeon has regular Taekkyeon and street fighting game Sibak (also in Taekkyeon). Taekwondo is stealing the place where Taekkyeon is supposed to be at. That's how I feel about Taekwondo.
5. I also think Karate and Karate's Breaking/Tameshiwari are stealing the place where Taekkyeon (including Yetbeob, Sibak) & Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu/Charyuk (original Breaking) are supposed to be. These sports should be more well known; these are the original sports for such hand techniques and Breaking.

 

[CB Jones]

If he taught Gwonbeop, then he learned Gwonbeop. It's just that his personal history is not accessible to the public. That's what I'm saying. Also, there is only 1 art called Gwonbeop in South Korea; it is Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop from 300 years ago.

If you are to claim he was teaching 300 year old Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop....then provide his lineage in that art.

Until then it seems he studied kung fu and karate and then created a new "gwonbeop" in the 40s.

 

[Steven Lee]

There is no proof other than that he called his art Gwonbeop and that his nickname was Gyungnong 18ki (as in Muyedobotongji Gwonbeop).

That is also a possibility. In that case, Taekwondo has no lineage to Korean art but plain Chinese & Japanese connections. But the direct interpretation is that he learned what he taught. He taught the name Gwonbeop; he learned the name Gwonbeop. That's all I'm saying. Like I said, I have no love for Taekwondo; it's tainted for me. I'm just setting up the direct interpretations without proofs.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If he taught Gwonbeop, then he learned Gwonbeop. .

Do you truly believe this statement provides support for your position?

 

[Earl Weiss]

. . I'm just setting up the direct interpretations without proofs.

Seems like no evidence let alone "Proof". Of course I am just guessing.

 

[Tez3]

[QUOTE="Steven Lee, post: 1949323, member: 40261"]I'm not motivated by what some of you people are motivated by, including Gwonbeop's nature or whatever "facts" are decided on Taekwondo.[/QUOTE]

You aren't motivated by cake!! What sort of person are you?

 

[Steven Lee]

Well yeah. The direct interpretation is that, if someone teaches an art called Gwonbeop, then he learned an art called Gwonbeop to teach what he had learned.

I don't care cake. I want freedom and justice with my free will that they shouldn't be persuading or negotiating.