Gi vs No Gi

[LoneRider]

I know this question has been asked in various iterations on this board before and I intend to take up MMA training sometime next year after I return from an Individual Augmentee assignment and (hopefully) am able to transfer from the US Navy to the US Army.

Where I'm liable to be using BJJ training (and other training) are in two places. In my MMA fighting (amateur level/post competitions) and in Army combatives. I know Gi training REALLY is beneficial to fighting someone hand to hand wearing BDUs. No Gi training is recommended for MMA. I'm wondering which should I start with in order to serve both goals (being a proficient MMA practicioner and being skilled in Army H2H)?

 

[Shogun]

Even in MMA, training in the gi is gonna help tremendously. the no gi exclusives have yet to win a title, yet if you look at the current MMA champions (especially UFC champs) you'll see a trend of Gi users. BJ Penn, GSP, Anderson Silva, Nogueira, etc are all gi users, and all but one is a BJJ champion as well. not sure about griffin.

 

[jarrod]

i second shogun's opinion.

j

 

[kaizasosei]

having a gi will give the opponent a chance to grab you in a number of ways more easily. you can be yanked easily or even choked with the gi, and the belt can be grabbed as a point of leverage.
unless your opponent is willing to rip your t-shirt, it's a little less unlikely that he can pull the same moves...if the shirt doesnt just come off. a stretchy shirt can be used to choke as well, but again, one would have to rip it if not seriously distort it.
ive also thought about this and i may well try wearing my reinforced kwon top to mma training. only one way to find out- im thinking their are some other benefits to wearing a gi--not sure yet though what exactly..ofcourse you could use your own gi or belt to choke or apply some technique if that is allowed.

j

 

[MJS]

I know this question has been asked in various iterations on this board before and I intend to take up MMA training sometime next year after I return from an Individual Augmentee assignment and (hopefully) am able to transfer from the US Navy to the US Army.

Where I'm liable to be using BJJ training (and other training) are in two places. In my MMA fighting (amateur level/post competitions) and in Army combatives. I know Gi training REALLY is beneficial to fighting someone hand to hand wearing BDUs. No Gi training is recommended for MMA. I'm wondering which should I start with in order to serve both goals (being a proficient MMA practicioner and being skilled in Army H2H)?

Perhaps you could do an equal balance of both.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have always maintained an equal balance and feel that is the best route to go. Purely for self defense reasons though. You see living in Michigan if I am ever assaulted there is a good chance someone might have a sweat shirt, coat, etc. on and if we do go to the ground I may be able to manipulate it to my advantage. Like wise they may also have a t shirt on and no gi training is really important there. Balance with both will make you see all new kinds of possibilities and in the end help your game.

 

[Steve]

Perhaps you could do an equal balance of both.

Training both is ideal, of course. But if you have to train exclusively in one or the other, I'd recommend training in a gi. I've seen in tournaments guys with absolutely no no-gi experience compete in both gi and no-gi divisions just for the mat time. While the two guys I'm thinking of didn't win, they weren't helpless. Not so going the other way. One guy in particular is a serious badass in no-gi, but flounders in a gi (and freely admits it) because he just doesn't have the tools to counter the grips.

I try to train 4 days per week and have recently made a change in my schedule so that one of those days is no-gi. I think that's a good balance, but we'll see.

I actually wrote a post about this on my blog. Hazmat, over at WhitecollarBJJ thought it would be fun to write up a kind of point/counterpoint article on our blogs. Granted, most of it is tongue in cheek, but a few of the points we made were serious. I link to his article in the one I wrote.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I actually wrote a post about this on my blog. Hazmat, over at WhitecollarBJJ thought it would be fun to write up a kind of point/counterpoint article on our blogs. Granted, most of it is tongue in cheek, but a few of the points we made were serious. I link to his article in the one I wrote.

Hey Steve that was a real nice read at your blog!

 

[Andrew Green]

it's a mixed bag.

For some things a gi is more "technical" for others no-gi is. It's a lot harder to control someone when you don't have handles everywhere, so you have to "do it right", or we could say it's harder to escape because they have handles, so you have to do that right.

What I will say is that while there is a lot of crossover, and training in both will help the other, it is not neccessary. The two are different sports, like Judo and greco-roman wrestling, and I have yet to hear a wrestling champion say that you have to train Judo to get good at wrestling. I'm sure it would be helpful for some, but its certainely not required.

Right now most of the top guys do train in gi at least some of the tim, so there is that claim. Whether that trend will continue, or whether it is more due to the fact that there are a lot more people training in BJJ / gi stuff when it comes to submission based grappling is a open question though.

I personally train pretty much exclusively no-gi, but its more of a personal preference then anything. I never really liked gi training as much, and fully admit that I suck at it.

All that said I do prefer gi's for the kids. Partially appearance, partially expectations of parents / kids, but largely it comes down to a balancing act for me. Gi's give handles, and help to decrease the advantages of size / strength as the smaller kids have something they can hold onto a little better against the bigger ones.

 

[LoneRider]

Sounds like a good idea to train for both. I've heard arguements for gi and no-gi alike and figured actual ju-jitsu practicioners are the best folks to talk to. A friend of mine who is a judoka (he's stationed in Sasebo and has been practicing for almost six years) is a big-time gi advocate and has given me plenty of good guidance in the hand to hand combat aspect of ju-jitsu (he often states that gi training adequately mimes fighting an adversary wearing BDUs).

I figure a balanced approach is best, but should I start training with gi first or no-gi. My friend, of course recommended start with gi training and 'if you must, transfer to non-gi after you get good at gi grappling...'. Any advice on best starts in BJJ? Gi or no gi?

 

[Steve]

Hey Steve that was a real nice read at your blog!

Thanks! I was trying to keep it funny but not completely devoid of worthwhile information.

 

[Ybot]

As many have stated already, my vote would be to do a bit of both. Training in each brings something important to the other that is often neglected when only training one or the other.

Gi training, IMO, forces someone to become more technical. The increased number of grips and friction of material slows down the game, and allows people to begin to feel proper positioning, rather than encouraging you to attack fast and hard. The biggest difference between the techniques of a purple belt and a black belt are those small kinesthetic adjustments that make techniques more effective and harder to escape.

On the other hand because of the gi grips and slowness of the gi game it becomes much easier to develope a lazy game. You can stall out a bit more, and forget that explosiveness and strength do have a place in grappling. This is where training no-gi helps. You have a greater ability to slip out of techniques, and so the pace of the game is muched increased.

No-gi training, though, suffers a bit because of the pace. More ephasis is placed on being explosive and fast, and so you often lose the oppertunities to really feel proper technique.

Anyway, that's the way I see it. I train mostly gi right now, but only because my schedule hasn't allowed me to make no-gi classes. I will be attending more no-gi in the future, though.

 

[MJS]

Hey Steve that was a real nice read at your blog!

Agreed! That was very nice!

 

[LoneRider]

stevebjj,

Very nice blog post.

Thanks for all the advice I've gotten from everyone. The final verdict: I'll train with a gi first before moving onto no-gi training. My rationale is, Army combatives tend to have a lot of gi-based grappling (at least from what Kid Peligrio's book on Army H2H showed) and a lot of gi grappling can be transferred to grappling with a guy wearing BDUs or some equivalent.

I figure I'd best develop and then refine my ground game/grappling area as well as continuing to evolve my striking ability in order to take up mixed martial arts.

 

[SA_BJJ]

Yes, Gi is definitely the way to go.

 

[bigfootsquatch]

I haven't read the other posts, but I will give my view anyway,hahah.

If you train with the Gi, you can do No Gi. It is much easier to adapt your game from gi-no gi, than the other way around. No gi should be trained from time to time to get use to the more slippery feeling, but it's much easier to start out with a Gi. It forces you to use the correct technique for escapes, passes, and so forth. Gi is also better for stamina, you'll be surprised how long you can roll no gi if you have been rolling in a thick gi for several months. Gi training is definitely the way to do JJ.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I haven't read the other posts, but I will give my view anyway,hahah.

If you train with the Gi, you can do No Gi. It is much easier to adapt your game from gi-no gi, than the other way around. No gi should be trained from time to time to get use to the more slippery feeling, but it's much easier to start out with a Gi. It forces you to use the correct technique for escapes, passes, and so forth. Gi is also better for stamina, you'll be surprised how long you can roll no gi if you have been rolling in a thick gi for several months. Gi training is definitely the way to do JJ.

I agree completely, to me its just more traditional to roll with the gi. Practicality wise of course no gi is better because who goes to the bar or somewhere out on the town in a gi?

 

[Steve]

I agree completely, to me its just more traditional to roll with the gi. Practicality wise of course no gi is better because who goes to the bar or somewhere out on the town in a gi?

I've seen posts like this before and I've always wondered about it. I don't know too many guys who go to the pub for a drink without a shirt on or wearing a rash guard. Seems like the chances they're wearing something. Right?

I don't train BJJ for self defense. That said, while a collar choke might destroy a guy's jacket, even the flimsiest of shirts is good for at least one.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I've seen posts like this before and I've always wondered about it. I don't know too many guys who go to the pub for a drink without a shirt on or wearing a rash guard. Seems like the chances they're wearing something. Right?

I don't train BJJ for self defense. That said, while a collar choke might destroy a guy's jacket, even the flimsiest of shirts is good for at least one.

Very true, even if you dont use it to actually choke them you can use it for leverage to gain position.

 

[zDom]

Kinda depends on the climate and time o' the year.

Summer here in Southeast Missouri: I need the no-Gi stuff as the best you can hope for is a T-shirt (although a guy once showed me that rolling the T-shirt up their back and create a nice piece of useable fabric )

Winter? I can count on having "handles" to use should self-defense be necessary



Summer on the beach in Cali or Brazil? Yea, best be working that no-gi stuff