Getting On The Mat

[Carol]

In a previous post I listed some of the older guys who still put on the pads and step onto the mat. I am going to correct a mistake that I made, I left out a very dedicated group of martial artists, The Ladies.
These Ladies still put on their pads and get on the mat for non point continuous sparring. Here are a few,
Linda Kravitz(57), Peg Mullen(63), Jan Cunningham(54), Deb D'Antuno(49), Darleen Weyant(very classified), Carol Pilkington(44) etc. The list of woman from the North East is very long.
Please note that this group fights co-ed, they stand right across from us guys. The women are just as tough as the guys. Hats off to them.:ultracool

Sweet!!!! Now THAT is inspiring.

 

[KenpoGunz]

Tonight was sparring night, so I figure I'll share. It starts off light contact and than the group starts to divide up based on the level of contact desired. Generally the higher your rank the harder the contact. Actually I dont think it's possible to get a black belt from my instructor without going full contact atleast a few times. Anyway

We all stand around the sparring ring and give encouragement and advice to both fighters. Rounds can vary from 2 to 5 min depending on a lot of things. Only one sparring session at a time. Protection consists of a mouth piece, gloves, and a cup. I also wear shin and instep pads becasue I like to kick to the legs, but realize both myself and my sparring buddy need to walk the next day.

Rules can vary depending on who is fighting, but for the most part its, no groin shots, nothing to the back of the neck or spine, no dirty tactics, and we generally try to throw knees and elbows at light to medium contact if there is no knee or elbow pads being used. Even with pads knees/elbows tend to be kept in the medium level of contact. Jabs, straight punches, hooks, upper cuts etc... and most kicks can be used full contact in continuous sparring.

Tonight I had two full contact 3 minute rounds and one medium contact 2 minute round.

I leanred a cool way to counter knees in the clinch by performing a slight stance change and kicking behind the knee of the supporting leg, which becomes a takedown as the oppontents base is disrupted. He told me the name of the Kenpo technqiue the principle comes from. I just cant remember it now.

Next sparring class we will be working on striking from the clinch and safely exiting the clinch.

 

[Doc]

I've done my share of "sparring" and trained some of the best out there and locked horns with them on a daily basis. But age is not the only factor that makes you temper this type of training. Much of it is counterproductive and teaches bad "street" habits, according to Ed Parker who himslef stopped doing it. Even though he was a great grappler and sparred in his younger days, he took a different approach under the Chinese to not develop habits he wouldn't use it reality. Add to that, the fact that many of us oldsters cannot afford to be injured because we have jobs, that don't allow for walking wounded. To the question "Do I still mix it up?" Yes. Everyday with people who do not fight for points or submissions. Knives, guns, sticks, and pipes, Life or death. Its called public law enforcement. So far, I'm still winning. (But I cheat a lot)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I've done my share of "sparring" and trained some of the best out there and locked horns with them on a daily basis. But age is not the only factor that makes you temper this type of training. Much of it is counterproductive and teaches bad "street" habits, according to Ed Parker who himslef stopped doing it. Even though he was a great grappler and sparred in his younger days, he took a different approach under the Chinese to not develop habits he wouldn't use it reality. Add to that, the fact that many of us oldsters cannot afford to be injured because we have jobs, that don't allow for walking wounded. To the question "Do I still mix it up?" Yes. Everyday with people who do not fight for points or submissions. Knives, guns, sticks, and pipes, Life or death. Its called public law enforcement. So far, I'm still winning. (But I cheat a lot)

Good for you Doc!

 

[LawDog]

Doc,
In your post you mentioned "Law Enforcement" I to am in this field and still prefer to work the streets. I teach defensive tactics to law enforcement agencies here in New England and over in Europe. One of the most requested areas of instruction is on how both the bad guys and law enforcement read into both body and verbal language.
The one thing that has always held true, a person who is confident in his true fighting skills gives of an entirely different body and verbal language. An active fighter tends to walk erect, shows passive confidence, uses little or no large body motion etc. When they talk they show no emotion in their voice, they are focused on the situation at hand but are still aware or their surroundings etc.
The reason that I have mentioned this, on my department and on a few surrounding departments there are a few of the older officers that still mix it up. When these officers walk into a situation, everyone takes notice of their presence. People act very different when these officers approach them. In law enforcement this is known as "Command Presence". With this type of presence there is usually no physical confrontation.
On the other hand those in law enforcement who are out of shape, have very little or no real fighting skills give off a different type of body language. While walking or just standing there is no sign of internal confidence, they are distracted easily, they tend to hollar/ scream and usually make numerious large body movements. After arriving at a situation things tend to get out of hand quickly.
Older people are othen victums of very violent crime. The "bad guys" tend to target those who they feel will not attempt to defend themselves. Older people should do what they can as long as they can. One should never give off the body language that says, I can't.
Doc, just curious, what agency are you a member of?

 

[Seabrook]

Hey Jamie did this same Master grapple? I think I remember seeing a youtube clip of him rolling with various people and submitting them all.

Nevermind In the middle of typing this I found it.

Awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=pcbd

He is very talented and works extremely hard at his martial arts. You won't find any kids with black belts on at his school, that is for sure.

 

[Seabrook]

Doc,

What is your take on this site and youtube clip below. As mentioned before, he is a 9th degree black belt in Kung Fu and is in his high 50s.

http://northernblackdragon.com

Here is a youtube link for him if you would like to see how he moves:

Thanks,

Jamie Seabrook

 

[KenpoGunz]

Very interesting.

If anyone is interested in Mr. Parker's thoughts on the various forms of freestyle (sparring) please see the following.

Infinite Insights into Kenpo vol I chapter 3 pages. 49-53
Infinite Insights into Kenpo vol V chapter 9 pages. 191-192 5th and 6th paragraphs.

If you dont have the books. Mr. Parker's baisc idea is that sparring is very important as it begins to border on reality. It can be infered that he feels full contact/knock-out competitions offer the most realistic value, but to remember the lessons taught in the self-defense techniques as the threats encountered and the stratagies and weapons used can differ in a self defense situation.

If you dont have the Infinite Insights Into Kenpo book series I would highly recommend you get them. They clear up a lot about how training should be conducted regarding the 3 divisions of American Kenpo [Basics, Self-Defense, Freestyle(sparring)] and Mr. Parker's positive attitude regarding usefull cross-training.

 

[kidswarrior]

I've done my share of "sparring" and trained some of the best out there and locked horns with them on a daily basis. But age is not the only factor that makes you temper this type of training. Much of it is counterproductive and teaches bad "street" habits, according to Ed Parker who himslef stopped doing it. Even though he was a great grappler and sparred in his younger days, he took a different approach under the Chinese to not develop habits he wouldn't use it reality.

I've had this complaint for a long time, now. In my early days of training, we'd learn moves for self defense which included a lot of what would be called 'cheating' in s sporting situation, and then at the end of a test or class, strap on gear and have to play by a whole different set of rules--all the things we'd just learned were now off-limits! That, as Doc said, is flat out counterproductive, if not just plain contradictory.

Add to that, the fact that many of us oldsters cannot afford to be injured because we have jobs, that don't allow for walking wounded.

And it takes us three times longer to heal when we do get injured. This is why animals in the wild don't fight for fun--only to eat or protect themselves or their group. An injury can be life threatening because if wounded, they may not be able to hunt, keep up with the rest of the pack, etc. (and will likely starve).

To the question "Do I still mix it up?" Yes. Everyday with people who do not fight for points or submissions. Knives, guns, sticks, and pipes, Life or death. Its called public law enforcement. So far, I'm still winning. (But I cheat a lot)

Yes, this is the real 'mixing it up'. The idea is to win your safety, contain and control a situation before it blows up; no one awards points, but it's certainly as real as it gets. 'Cheating' is a given. My work with often-violent adolescents (and anyone from outside who may show up and have a beef with them) may call for a physical response on any day. Have had to walk into the mix on many occasions. Fortunately, I'm still winning, too.

 

[kidswarrior]

The one thing that has always held true, a person who is confident in his true fighting skills gives of an entirely different body and verbal language. An active fighter tends to walk erect, shows passive confidence, uses little or no large body motion etc. When they talk they show no emotion in their voice, they are focused on the situation at hand but are still aware or their surroundings etc.
The reason that I have mentioned this, on my department and on a few surrounding departments there are a few of the older officers that still mix it up. When these officers walk into a situation, everyone takes notice of their presence. People act very different when these officers approach them. In law enforcement this is known as "Command Presence". With this type of presence there is usually no physical confrontation.

I agree that the command presence can be the difference between whether and what degree of violence the 'bad guys' may try. But I think it can come not just by continuing to 'mix it up' in a controlled situation, but also by continuing to mix it up in uncontrolled situations, especially for those who have put in the sparring time for years already. In other words, being an 'active fighter' can come from more than one venue (not just competition).

On the other hand those in law enforcement who are out of shape, have very little or no real fighting skills give off a different type of body language. While walking or just standing there is no sign of internal confidence, they are distracted easily, they tend to hollar/ scream and usually make numerious large body movements. After arriving at a situation things tend to get out of hand quickly.
Older people are othen victums of very violent crime. The "bad guys" tend to target those who they feel will not attempt to defend themselves. Older people should do what they can as long as they can. One should never give off the body language that says, I can't.

But again, IMHO I don't believe we either get this conditioning and confident body language from sparring or not at all. I think for some of us, we've already done a lot of sparring and now due to 'life happening' have carried that confidence--hopefully command presence--into daily lives and work. Anyway, that's worked for me, and I guess my experience is the only thing I'm really an expert on.

 

[John Bishop]

A good example of still being able to get on the mat:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/costa_rica_tourist_mugging

 

[LawDog]

Mr Bishop,
Everyone should give courtesy bow to that person. :mst:

 

[Tames D]

Doc,

What is your take on this site and youtube clip below. As mentioned before, he is a 9th degree black belt in Kung Fu and is in his high 50s.

http://northernblackdragon.com

Here is a youtube link for him if you would like to see how he moves:

Thanks,

Jamie Seabrook

This man is very impressive Jaime. Why don't you train with him anymore?

 

[Seabrook]

This man is very impressive Jaime. Why don't you train with him anymore?

I obtained my black sash from him, and I love Kung Fu, but I want to always keep my base art as American Kenpo Karate.

There is another reason as well, but I would rather not share that info.