Get to the Point

Steve

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Gonna need just a little bit more from you on this, my man. If you want us to get to the point, there needs to be a point.
 

Gerry Seymour

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What is fighting?
That's open for argument. I know it is, because it has been argued here on MT.
What is a MA?
Ask three people in the same school, and you'll probably get four answers.
What makes MAs work?
That depends what you mean by "work". And even then, you'll find a lot of very different opinions on this.
 
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Highlander

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@Steve just a thread line to caught attention, not trying to be rude. And the point is exactly the questions I asked. Answer the questions from your view point.
 
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Highlander

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@gpseymour fair points. However, I would think its opened for a discussion, hopefully not an argument. Were all entitled to our opinion.
And I'm asking this on a forum with multiple training ideologies so I'm very much counting on multiple answers and multiple view points.
Fair point about the 'work' thing. Lets say in the context of fighting. Be it in a ring, in the street, in a class room, with your drunken inlaw. How do you make MA work for you ?? Hell you could even make it work in by making you more active, making you more confident, making you more calm. Answer them as you see fit. I like open ended questions and more 'big picture' topics.
 

Gerry Seymour

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@gpseymour fair points. However, I would think its opened for a discussion, hopefully not an argument. Were all entitled to our opinion.
And I'm asking this on a forum with multiple training ideologies so I'm very much counting on multiple answers and multiple view points.
Fair point about the 'work' thing. Lets say in the context of fighting. Be it in a ring, in the street, in a class room, with your drunken inlaw. How do you make MA work for you ?? Hell you could even make it work in by making you more active, making you more confident, making you more calm. Answer them as you see fit. I like open ended questions and more 'big picture' topics.


I pointed out the variability to suggest you may want to wrap a bit more context around your terms. The answers I've heard about "fight" range from arranged fight (not sanctioned) to competition to any self-defense conflict, to literally excluding each of those. In other words, one guy will say, "a fight is a prearranged bout, whether sanctioned or not", and the other guy will reply, "a fight is any unexpected physical conflict". IMO, the word requires context. Because "getting into a fight" implies a fairly specific concept (assuming we limit it to actual physical conflict).

And that leads us to "works", because you used the term "fighting" there. Which means we'd have to settle that term before we can even discuss that definition.

And as for what makes it work, that's a pretty vague question, so you're likely to get answers that range from "hard work" to "practice" to "principles" to "physical ability". And those folks might not even disagree, but are answering different perceived questions.

You may want to provide some context to your questions - something to get folks, er, pointed in the right direction for the point you're trying to get to.
 

Blitz2.0

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What is fighting?
What is a MA?
What makes MAs work?
This is just my view point.

Almost all martial arts have one similarity the "martial" aspect, they were either created for war,during war, or from combat experience human vs human or even animal vs animal(tiger,crane,leopard,etc) that's the martial aspect to me. The art aspect is the do aspect as in karatedo,judo,taekwondo etc this is where discipline,hard work,integrity,character,ethics,etc are cultivated. The art is where people express themselves and their style with martial techniques. The craziest thing to me which I
Find amazing is how when people use martial techniques to become better people and more productive members of society. Isn't it crazy how expressing one's self using martial techniques meant for either the battlefield,self defense etc can bring so much peace and enlightenment to ones life. The art is the lifestyle to me.

What makes ma work?
To me hard work and dedication. I've seen masters of different styles even some that come from arts you wouldn't really think of as self defense arts (like arts that focus mostly on character cultivation and less on the martial applications)be formidable practitioners who can make their styles mindset and techniques work rather in self defense,the ring, or even sparring.

What is fighting?

Many people will say different things. To some it's only combat ring sports, to others it's self defense survival, and to others their greatest opponent is themselves, they are working to cultivate self perfection more than self preservation. To me I agree with all of those 3 viewpoints and my view is a hybrid of all 3. I hope this helps you.
 
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Highlander

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I pointed out the variability to suggest you may want to wrap a bit more context around your terms. The answers I've heard about "fight" range from arranged fight (not sanctioned) to competition to any self-defense conflict, to literally excluding each of those. In other words, one guy will say, "a fight is a prearranged bout, whether sanctioned or not", and the other guy will reply, "a fight is any unexpected physical conflict". IMO, the word requires context. Because "getting into a fight" implies a fairly specific concept (assuming we limit it to actual physical conflict).

And that leads us to "works", because you used the term "fighting" there. Which means we'd have to settle that term before we can even discuss that definition.

And as for what makes it work, that's a pretty vague question, so you're likely to get answers that range from "hard work" to "practice" to "principles" to "physical ability". And those folks might not even disagree, but are answering different perceived questions.

You may want to provide some context to your questions - something to get folks, er, pointed in the right direction for the point you're trying to get to.
The reason I left it opened is so people can give their own definitions. If I limit the discussion to my view point I wont get answer from different sides. Say I define fighting as only cage/professional fights. Well that limits the amount of people im looking to respond to this question. By letting people answer with their own definitions it lets you see the lens with which they view those 3 things. Its been a while since ive been on here. So I was looking to feel out the more active members.
 

drop bear

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Fighting is physically imposing your will on another person.

Martial arts is the study of that.

And what makes Martial arts work is a combination of efficiency and rigorous testing.
 

ShortBridge

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... Lets say in the context of fighting. Be it in a ring, in the street, in a class room, with your drunken inlaw. How do you make MA work for you ??...

Any of those things are fighting as a whole bunch of others like war or rioting or carjacking or home invasion or active shooter scenarios and a seemingly endless list of examples that we could come up with. Drop Bear's definition works pretty well.

What ask people who contact me about training and revisit individually with my students frequently is "what are you concerned might happen to you that you would have to deal with?" It might domestic violence or being mugged (or theoretically becoming a mugger...but I wouldn't train them) or it could be competition. You need to be able to relate your training to the scenario that you are trying to prepare yourself for or it's not the right training for you.
 

Graywalker

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1) Fighting-that situation that involves one to possibly get their *** kicked.
2) What is MA?-Training that helps lower the chance of getting your *** kicked
3) What makes MA work? -The individual using it and that alone.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The reason I left it opened is so people can give their own definitions. If I limit the discussion to my view point I wont get answer from different sides. Say I define fighting as only cage/professional fights. Well that limits the amount of people im looking to respond to this question. By letting people answer with their own definitions it lets you see the lens with which they view those 3 things. Its been a while since ive been on here. So I was looking to feel out the more active members.
The issue as I see it is these are interdependent questions. If we define fighting differently, then we may not even be answering the same second question. And if the second question is a different context, then the third would have us on wholly different topics. For instance, I agree with @drop bear on his answers (because I can understand the definitions hes using in that context), but they wouldnt be my answers, which would look like I disagree.
 
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Highlander

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The issue as I see it is these are interdependent questions. If we define fighting differently, then we may not even be answering the same second question. And if the second question is a different context, then the third would have us on wholly different topics. For instance, I agree with @drop bear on his answers (because I can understand the definitions hes using in that context), but they wouldnt be my answers, which would look like I disagree.
In my head I imagined people just answering the question without trying to prove someone else wrong. But yeah youre right people will try to be right. This was just another question. Like what I said in my other thread. We can just let this one die. Failed topic:D
 

Graywalker

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In my head I imagined people just answering the question without trying to prove someone else wrong. But yeah youre right people will try to be right. This was just another question. Like what I said in my other thread. We can just let this one die. Failed topic:D
Especially, when they get to use their own individual definitions...that allows everyone to think they're right.
 

jobo

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What is fighting?
What is a MA?
What makes MAs work?
fighting is two( or indeed more but at least two) in a physical contest
ma is or should be techneques that assist you in that endevour

people make ma work or not work, no ma will work with out you having the physical attributes to make it work , any ma will work if your physical atributes are far greater than the other guy, no ma will work if its the otherway round
 

yak sao

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no ma will work if its the otherway round

I'm not quite sure I follow what you're saying here.
Are you saying that martial arts will not work if your opponent is bigger than you and has Superior skill?
Or simply Martial Arts will not work against someone who is bigger and stronger than you?
 

jobo

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I'm not quite sure I follow what you're saying here.
Are you saying that martial arts will not work if your opponent is bigger than you and has Superior skill?
Or simply Martial Arts will not work against someone who is bigger and stronger than you?
physical atributes, so speed ballance reactions strengh cardio/ aerobiic capacity endurance, etal.
if they have more of everything , then your on a sticky wicket, thats a cricket metaphor for not the best position to find yourself

if they have a lot more of everything then your up the creek with out a paddle, which i belive is an american metaphore for loosing your oar leaving you in a most invidious postion, or it could even be up shizt creek, with out a paddle
 
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drop bear

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physical atributes, so speed ballance reactions strengh cardio/ aerobiic capacity endurance, etal.
if they have more of everything , then your on a sticky wicket, thats a cricket metaphor for not the best position to find yourself

if they have a lot more of everything then your up the creek with out a paddle, which i belive is an american metaphore for loosing your oar leaving you in a most invidious postion, or it could even be up shizt creek, with out a paddle

Provided they have some sort of similar skills.

Bjj is especially one of those places that has taken advantage of big, strong, fit people with no idea about what they are supposed to be doing in the environment they are in.

And manhandling them.


 
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jobo

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Provided they have some sort of similar skills.

Bjj is especially one of those places that has taken advantage of big, strong, fit people with no idea about what they are supposed to be doing in the environment they are in.

And manhandling them.


he doesnt look like an nfl player, can you name him?

and ive no idea what was happening in the second vid, he just fell on the floor for no reason

and as i mention a few physical atributes apart from size, in fact i didnt mention size at all

which of those atributes are you saying the bjj opionent had considerably more of ? it certainly wasnt cardio in the first one or ballance in the second one
 

Cynik75

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What is fighting?....
There is excellent philosophical description of fighting created by polish philosopher Tadeusz Kotarbiski in 1938.
Here you can find little bit more about agonology - general theory of fighting:
Agonology as a Deeply Esoteric Science An Introduction to Martial Arts Therapy on a Global Scale - ScienceDirect
Here is the quote from above article:
"Tadeusz Kotorabiski in the widest understanding defines a struggle as any activity, in which at least two subjects participate (assuming that a team can be a subject) whereas at least one of subjects hinders the other one "
 
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